Off Season Trade Rumours

[Mat0369]

Hawks would have lost Jordan Lewis if Buddy had have stayed. The fact that the salary cap opened up enough so that the Hawks could keep him, and are able to bring in Frawley (without needing to use a pick) is proof that there shouldn't be compensation picks given. The salary cap space opened up is enough compensation. When extra picks are handed out it throws the whole equalisation system of a salary cap and draft out of whack.

The compensation is needed for the lower clubs at this point in time. There are still restrictions on player movement and while having money in the salary cap is a good thing for a top club that loses a highly regarded player (Buddy), the lower clubs struggle to attract the attention of these marquee players. By giving them an adequate compensation pick in return for the loss it allows them to build the list from within and then attract these guns while they are on the way up. In the case of Melbourne, if they do manage to get pick 3, they can then offload this with pick 2 to try and attract a gun of their own. They are not going to attract someone in the right age bracket that the club will want to target as they have restrictions. Until players are allowed to move without restrictions the ideal situation of no compensation won't exist. The fact players have to wait so long to become unrestricted or restricted free agents hampers this process and the picks are needed, especially in the case of a team like Melbourne. If Melbourne chose to let go of Frawley this year, with compo picks playing no role, and their were no restrictions on player movement, they would have gone after someone like Fyfe hard. They would have been able offer something like Fyfe $1.2 mill a year that Freo had the option of matching (he would be restricted). However the current restrictions in place as to the age group of players that become available don't allow them to do this.

Also tbag, the Saints allowed their players to walk and have received adequate compensation in the likes of Dunstan for the Big Boy trade and trading on the Dal pick (which they mutually decided to exercise the option of him becoming a FA) for Billy Longer. They want to look to the future and build from the ground up.

[meow meow]

Hawks would have lost Jordan Lewis if Buddy had have stayed. The fact that the salary cap opened up enough so that the Hawks could keep him, and are able to bring in Frawley (without needing to use a pick) is proof that there shouldn't be compensation picks given. The salary cap space opened up is enough compensation. When extra picks are handed out it throws the whole equalisation system of a salary cap and draft out of whack.

The compensation is needed for the lower clubs at this point in time. There are still restrictions on player movement and while having money in the salary cap is a good thing for a top club that loses a highly regarded player (Buddy), the lower clubs struggle to attract the attention of these marquee players. By giving them an adequate compensation pick in return for the loss it allows them to build the list from within and then attract these guns while they are on the way up. In the case of Melbourne, if they do manage to get pick 3, they can then offload this with pick 2 to try and attract a gun of their own. They are not going to attract someone in the right age bracket that the club will want to target as they have restrictions. Until players are allowed to move without restrictions the ideal situation of no compensation won't exist. The fact players have to wait so long to become unrestricted or restricted free agents hampers this process and the picks are needed, especially in the case of a team like Melbourne. If Melbourne chose to let go of Frawley this year, with compo picks playing no role, and their were no restrictions on player movement, they would have gone after someone like Fyfe hard. They would have been able offer something like Fyfe $1.2 mill a year that Freo had the option of matching (he would be restricted). However the current restrictions in place as to the age group of players that become available don't allow them to do this.

Also tbag, the Saints allowed their players to walk and have received adequate compensation in the likes of Dunstan for the Big Boy trade and trading on the Dal pick (which they mutually decided to exercise the option of him becoming a FA) for Billy Longer. They want to look to the future and build from the ground up.

The draft is what allows teams from build from within. Melbourne get an advantage over Carlton as it is due to ladder position. The Blues are being disadvantaged even more with Melb receiving an extra first round pick. All it is going to do is create an uneven draft.

I'm not sure that I understand your logic. How could Melb chase 1.2 mil Fyfe by losing a 500k player in Frawley?
Melbourne can front load contracts this year with the money they would have paid Chip, then next season there will be more room in the cap so they can go out and get a FA to replace Chip. It might take 12 months but it ends up being fair. The salary cap evens things out. The fact that they'll also have pick #3 on their list is an unfair leg up on every other team in the competition.

[Mat0369]

The draft is what allows teams from build from within. Melbourne get an advantage over Carlton as it is due to ladder position. The Blues are being disadvantaged even more with Melb receiving an extra first round pick. All it is going to do is create an uneven draft.

I'm not sure that I understand your logic. How could Melb chase 1.2 mil Fyfe by losing a 500k player in Frawley?
Melbourne can front load contracts this year with the money they would have paid Chip, then next season there will be more room in the cap so they can go out and get a FA to replace Chip. It might take 12 months but it ends up being fair. The salary cap evens things out. The fact that they'll also have pick #3 on their list is an unfair leg up on every other team in the competition.

I will break this up

How can they chase Fyfe? Because they also lost Mitch Clark. Frawley to stay at Melbourne would have cost them about $800k  a season (that's what he was asking). The 800k they gain from losing Chip and the 700k+ they get off the books with Clark allows them to chase after Fyfe. It is addition by subtraction, but the way the FA rules are set, a side like Melbourne is severely hampered in chasing a top star. This is why they are compensated through the draft for losing their best players. When it will come to the next crop of FA to choose a club, they will most likely go to a premiership contender on less cash then close to a mill at the Dees. The only way Melbourne are going to attract the type of player they want is through a trade and that can only happen by giving them draft concessions to throw around at other clubs.

Also to say that Carlton are being disadvantaged in the draft, there is not that great a difference from pick 5 to pick 6. It is not like all the clubs are being knocked down 8 spots in the draft, it is one pick in the first round going to a team that has lost a key player to an opposing club.

[BoredSaint]

People are saying Hawks were hard done by by getting only pick 19 for Buddy. Imagine if they got pick 3 or something after just winning the flag..

[meow meow]

They didn't gain 800K in the salary cap just because he was asking for that much. They probably opened up 600K which is what they would have been paying him.

Clark is irrelevant to the Frawley deal. That money is opened up regardless of losing a free agent. That might be spent to lure Lumumba and another player to the club via traditional trades so you can't include that in your example.

I think you are underestimating greed. Throw a million dollar contract at enough players and one will budge.

I'll show you how FA evens things up without the need of a compo pick. 1.2 million dollars is being spent every season.

2015
600K to Frawley, 600K to Jones             OR              Front load Jones' contract for 1.2M
2016
600K to Frawley, 600K to Jones             OR              300K to Jones, 900K on FA Ben Reid     
2016
600K to Frawley, 600K to Jones             OR              300K to Jones, 900K on Ben Reid
2017
600K to Frawley, 600K to Jones             OR              600K to Jones, 600K on Ben Reid

Nathan Jones gets paid a total of 2.4 mil regardless.

The Demons could lure Reid on a 3 year deal worth 2.4 mil (average of 800K a season). They could pick him up as a free agent, which doesn't require them to use a pick. Reid is just as good as Frawley so they have lost nothing there. AND they have the player taken with that extra pick #3 on their list.

Is playing one season without a "gun" player worth getting a pick 3 who'll play 12-14 seasons?

[Pkbaldy]

People are saying Hawks were hard done by by getting only pick 19 for Buddy. Imagine if they got pick 3 or something after just winning the flag..

They'd take our Billings  :'(

[tbagrocks]

So, cant anyone see the problem here? Solving who and what gets what for whom in trade draft concessions? Sheesh, what a mess

Yeah and just nah, FA will never work is as most of us do. Want an equal competition. NEVER

[Big Mac]

I just realised this.

In 2010, Frawley signed a deal with Melbourne which would last until 2014. In order for Melbourne to meet the minimum salary cap, they heavily front-ended his contract, so much so that in his final years at the club he would no longer be one of the highest paid players there. In 2012, the AFL introduced Free Agency, which stipulates that if a player in their final year at their respective club does not receive a salary in the top 25%, they will become an unrestricted free agent. Melbourne had no knowledge of such a rule at the time of signing Frawley's contract, and as such, Frawley receives a salary in 2014 that does not fall in the top 25% making him an unrestricted free agent.

Now, assume that Frawley decides to accept a deal from Hawthorn which would see him earn 450k over 4 years, a deal Melbourne would have easily matched had he been a restricted free agent. If this deal is not significant enough to warrant first round compensation, could Melbourne take legal action?

[Ziplock]

I just realised this.

In 2010, Frawley signed a deal with Melbourne which would last until 2014. In order for Melbourne to meet the minimum salary cap, they heavily front-ended his contract, so much so that in his final years at the club he would no longer be one of the highest paid players there. In 2012, the AFL introduced Free Agency, which stipulates that if a player in their final year at their respective club does not receive a salary in the top 25%, they will become an unrestricted free agent. Melbourne had no knowledge of such a rule at the time of signing Frawley's contract, and as such, Frawley receives a salary in 2014 that does not fall in the top 25% making him an unrestricted free agent.

Now, assume that Frawley decides to accept a deal from Hawthorn which would see him earn 450k over 4 years, a deal Melbourne would have easily matched had he been a restricted free agent. If this deal is not significant enough to warrant first round compensation, could Melbourne take legal action?

I thought only bottom 25% were unrestricted free agents?

[meow meow]

No. That would be like every club suing the AFL when they changed the veterans list rule.

4 years at 450K would get band 2 compo - end of round 1 pick.

[tor01doc]

So, cant anyone see the problem here? Solving who and what gets what for whom in trade draft concessions? Sheesh, what a mess

Yeah and just nah, FA will never work is as most of us do. Want an equal competition. NEVER

The draft needs to be more lop sided in favour of teams finishing lower.

In basketball - you only have 5 on the court at any one time.

AFL teams need more favours to get back up the ladder.

Maybe of the first 36 picks, top 2 get none, teams 3 - 6 get one, teams 7 - 11 get 2, teams 12 - 16 get 3 and bottom 4 get 4 each - or something similar using lottery system.

Free agency has actually helped better teams so draft needs to rebalance that.

[elephants]

round 2 seems high to me?

It is too high. He's an absolute spud, the most overrated player in the competition! Soft as butter! Lazy! Got dropped this season because he is just not very good. He's almost as shower as Liam Jones.

Dropped because of his intention to leave. No point playing a want away player over a developing kid!

[Big Mac]

I just realised this.

In 2010, Frawley signed a deal with Melbourne which would last until 2014. In order for Melbourne to meet the minimum salary cap, they heavily front-ended his contract, so much so that in his final years at the club he would no longer be one of the highest paid players there. In 2012, the AFL introduced Free Agency, which stipulates that if a player in their final year at their respective club does not receive a salary in the top 25%, they will become an unrestricted free agent. Melbourne had no knowledge of such a rule at the time of signing Frawley's contract, and as such, Frawley receives a salary in 2014 that does not fall in the top 25% making him an unrestricted free agent.

Now, assume that Frawley decides to accept a deal from Hawthorn which would see him earn 450k over 4 years, a deal Melbourne would have easily matched had he been a restricted free agent. If this deal is not significant enough to warrant first round compensation, could Melbourne take legal action?

I thought only bottom 25% were unrestricted free agents?

Copy and paste issues but it explains it all here - http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/free-agency

[Big Mac]

No. That would be like every club suing the AFL when they changed the veterans list rule.

Would you mind explaining? I don't think I was old to enough to understand back then, or more likely just not old enough to care  :P

[meow meow]

No. That would be like every club suing the AFL when they changed the veterans list rule.

Would you mind explaining? I don't think I was old to enough to understand back then, or more likely just not old enough to care  :P

Clubs gave players contracts based on the assumption that they would be able to pay half their wage outside of the cap. Then the AFL changed the rules and that would have affected list management and made some teams have to cut a player that they originally could afford. There's not much difference here.