Pies' Injuries - Beams/Cloke out for rest of regular season!

[tor01doc]

Pies to play and draw the first 3 grand finals.

[Spanner221]

We have the third youngest list in the comp, yet doing better than GWS and GC below us. You take way each clubs best five players (structurally) and see how much they struggle.

I have herd several clubs try and claim this and have seen many different sources claiming different things, so out of interest I was wondering if you have any way of backing up this claim as I genuinely interested.

For reference here are just two sources with different opinions:
http://www.footyjunkie.com.au/features/how-experienced-is-your-club-in-2014/
https://twitter.com/Peter_Mitchell7/status/431290213298483200

[mick_k25]

The source of the claim is probably Eddie Maguire, Because Eddie said so, it must be true...

All you Pies are the same, open your other eye buddy...

[_wato]

I hate Eddie as a magpie supporter hahaha you fool

I'm very open viewed too but for too long we cop it from everyone, it's about time we stand up for the club and it's players as supporters and back our statements. Rodney Eade said in a video I watched today that we are in fact the 4th youngest team and once Hudson and Ball and co leave I expect we will go down a whole lot more.

I understand that we're going through a lot right now but there's a whole lot of light at the end of the tunnel.
Everyone expects just because we're Collingwood and we have money that we should be competitive and personnel doesn't matter, we should win every game we play and what not, it's a load of bullshower. How about you lot open your eyes and look at the real picture - we are bottoming out and have a whole lot of young player coming through who will be jets in the future, but to play kids you have to expect big losses.

I have also learnt today that Elliot will miss again, Toovey will miss, Lumumba is extremely doubtful, Reid, Cloke, Beams are all out aswell, and Pendles is under some doubt - That's 6/7 of our best 22, and we've lost Maxwell/Brown/Adams for the year who are/were all apart of our best team, so literally we have currently lost 9/10 of our best 22 either to injury or retirement.

Does anybody think about that? Nopeeeee, but I bet everyone will expect us to perform this week, cause well, we're Collingwood.

[nopiesforyou]

As a Collingwood supporter I will point out that GWS lost their key forward, their 2 captains, played a team of similar ability as the pies did and won by 10 goals AWAY FROM HOME. They also didnt have their only All Australian and and 2 number 1 draft picks (Scully and Whitfield) and have put away about 10 of their players away for the year. Keep dreaming Wato, this is 1990 all over again. Have a great young team and watch it get pulled apart by an ex "superstar" player turned coach. Its too late, we are stuffed, we wont be winning a flag for many many years

[_wato]

Melbourne and Brisbane are completely different in terms of ability (don't even think Melbourne were there to play) but I do agree it was a terrible performance

I will never doubt our list but unless we start playing for Buckley I don't think he will ever earn the respect of the players and we will continue on a long road with no outcome in sight

How can this be 1990 all over again mate, we made the Grammy that year? Unless we turned to crap in the early 1990's hahhaa I wasn't around then

[Ringo]

Will just add one comment is Bucks coaching the same way as Voss did at Brisbane.  Both great players of the era but unfortunately can not transform to coaching.  See similar traits in Bucks as we did with Voss could not really adjust the game plan when things not going well.

And as i said earlier looking for further great games against the Pies as we are both similar average ages and Leppa has made it known our list will get younger next year.

[nopiesforyou]

Wato i was saying we won teh grand final in 1990 then handed the team over to Tony Shaw and he proceeded to recruit a team full of Tony Shaw play a likes. Our recruits since Buckley has been coach has included Jordan Russell, Quinten Lynch, Jessie White, Clinton Young, Tony Armstrong, Patrick Karnezis, Ben Hudson and a bunch of rookies and unproven draft picks. They have gotten rid of Darren Jolly who was still willing to play, Chris Dawes who is twice the player that Lynch and White  are , he just had injury problems at the time and Heath Shaw who basically won us a grand final and is irreplaceable given he is the best in his position by a mile. Alan Didak, who although was injury prone would be a perfect sub ala Giansiracusa. Thomas walked but he wouldnt have had Malthouse stayed. Thomas may have had an ordinary season this year but with a full pre season Carlton will see how good he can be. He has replaced 6 a grade players with 6 d grade hacks. Its a shame, we had a dynasty happening, now we are stuffed for years.

[ubeaut]

Wato i was saying we won teh grand final in 1990 then handed the team over to Tony Shaw and he proceeded to recruit a team full of Tony Shaw play a likes. Our recruits since Buckley has been coach has included Jordan Russell, Quinten Lynch, Jessie White, Clinton Young, Tony Armstrong, Patrick Karnezis, Ben Hudson and a bunch of rookies and unproven draft picks. They have gotten rid of Darren Jolly who was still willing to play, Chris Dawes who is twice the player that Lynch and White  are , he just had injury problems at the time and Heath Shaw who basically won us a grand final and is irreplaceable given he is the best in his position by a mile. Alan Didak, who although was injury prone would be a perfect sub ala Giansiracusa. Thomas walked but he wouldnt have had Malthouse stayed. Thomas may have had an ordinary season this year but with a full pre season Carlton will see how good he can be. He has replaced 6 a grade players with 6 d grade hacks. Its a shame, we had a dynasty happening, now we are stuffed for years.

Have to agree with most of that. How Bucks handled the Jolly situation was disgraceful. Lynch WAS a great player not anymore.
U still might get value from White.
To let Shaw go is just unbelievable. Like u said there aren't many halfbacks around as good as he is. Actually glad I'm a Dons supporter even with all the ASADA crap. I don't envy u pie guys!

[CFC 1979]

[_wato]

Wato i was saying we won teh grand final in 1990 then handed the team over to Tony Shaw and he proceeded to recruit a team full of Tony Shaw play a likes. Our recruits since Buckley has been coach has included Jordan Russell, Quinten Lynch, Jessie White, Clinton Young, Tony Armstrong, Patrick Karnezis, Ben Hudson and a bunch of rookies and unproven draft picks. They have gotten rid of Darren Jolly who was still willing to play, Chris Dawes who is twice the player that Lynch and White  are , he just had injury problems at the time and Heath Shaw who basically won us a grand final and is irreplaceable given he is the best in his position by a mile. Alan Didak, who although was injury prone would be a perfect sub ala Giansiracusa. Thomas walked but he wouldnt have had Malthouse stayed. Thomas may have had an ordinary season this year but with a full pre season Carlton will see how good he can be. He has replaced 6 a grade players with 6 d grade hacks. Its a shame, we had a dynasty happening, now we are stuffed for years.

Alright mate, didn't know about that as I wasn't conceived hahahaha
Russell and Hudson are hacks, I agree with that.. And the Shaw crisis was terrible, I still can't believe we got rid of him, but I agree with all the other calls. You can't tell me Didak had any more good years left in him (his disposal was horrendous) and he didn't impact games anymore - Ben Kennedy is his fit and just as good (top 20 draft pick). Jolly was getting on and I would've understood keeping him for ruck coaching purposes but he was done - we have Grundy and Witts who will be the next Cox/Naitanui for years to come.
Thomas had one good year, and his injury crisis is mounting, there's no way we would've wanted him here, and the price tag he associated with himself ($700k over four years) is way too much. Dawes I agree was okay but just didn't do enough to impact games, he was often lost in the game and just motioned around like he didn't know where to be (structurally). Hasn't done much at Melbourne either - many weeks he goes without kicking a goal.
Jessie White is a great athlete and once Reid is firing and the three understand each other's roles in the forward line he will be good - but it's a very long due process to construct a forward line together and a whole preseason may not be enough.. But as Sydney has realised, the further they play together the better they become.
Quinten Lynch is nearing the end - May be delisted or kept as coverage for Grundy/Witts.
Clinton Young has been poorly used this year - was brought in to transition and run and carry the footy with his huge left foot but has often been used to account for opposition half forwards and is too soft around the contest / needs to improve in that area.
Karnezis is being built to be a tall midfielder (aka Jobe Watson) and is learning his craft in the VFL this year - kicked 6 goals the other week so has enormous talent but needs to learn the skill set.
Armstrong will be a good player I think - has great composure and the other night shows his attitude towards the game and his efforts for the club.. Was overlooked at Sydney but could become a Sam Docherty and be important to our back 6.

I know these names now don't seem like much but I can remember a young Port Adelaide team a few years ago that finished bottom few after a grand final appearance in 2007 and had a crop of injuries - a young list complimented by blokes such as Treadrea, Cornes etc but not much hope. Look how far they've come after drafting well and picking up good young players. They've developed a great culture after the club went into turmoil (Bucks is building culture) and now they've earnt the respect of many in the oublic and football eye. Nobody would of thought PA would be where they are now, after where they were right? Everyone right us off at your peril.

[nopiesforyou]

Hinkley came in and took over Port and took them from the bottom to the finals first season. Buckley took over a side that finished 2nd and has taken them out of the finals. I like your optimism Wato, but there are 18 teams and only one can win the flag each year. We had to take our chances when we could, we had a very young side that won a flag and a few minor tweaks like Geelong and Hawthorn had made have kept them up there. We totally decimated our side and consequently have lost our opportunity and have gone completely backwards. Its too late to change now. the damage has been done.  Thank your lucky stars you have seen a premiership cos its going to be a long while before we see another one. Have you noticed how many small onballers we have that are very similar? They are going to get us nowhere. By the time Sharanberg and Freeman are ready Pendles and Cloke will be in there 30s and Beams and Sidebottom will be around 28. Our defence will be serviceable but besides Reid we wont have any outstanding players. And he is being played forward out of position.

[Mark]

so anyway thought this was about Beams and Cloke out for yea...lol

Is Cloke out for the year or should I say 2 weeks ??

[_wato]

I think much of this thread has been derailed, I apologise hahaha

Cloke is an outside chance to play Hawthorn but that's being very optimistic.. I believe his year is over and there's no point playing him against Hawthorn, our year is over regardless if he plays or not

I agree with a lot of that, we do have too many onballers that can only play one role which is frustrating and it leads me to question why we extend blokes contracts like Jarryd Blair

Frost and Keefe will be very good key defenders and Brown/Toovey will still be around for awhile to come.. add in Langdon/Armstrong/Williams/Seedsman who I all think will be very good players (especially Seedsman as I see a lot of Heater about him) and our defence is more than serviceable

It's our forward line that raises a lot of questions for me, it's under par at the moment and we have blokes like Dane Swan playing their out of position. We lack big bodies at the contests too, we need a big off season in the Gym

[mick_k25]

I understand that we're going through a lot right now but there's a whole lot of light at the end of the tunnel.

I think the light you see at the end of the tunnel is a train coming towards you, look out!