WXV Trade Talk

[Toga]

Yeah Zorko should play more up fwd, but Christo and Robbo will spend more time in the mids than up fwd. One of Hanley or Rich will have to play as a full-time mid, too.

I think we're clutching at straws here :P Christo, Robbo and Zorko should be mainly forward flankers, and Hanley and Rich will more than likely play HBF - they aren't going to simply take Rocky out of the mids to put in guys that aren't as good as him/different kinds of player. I mean come on, Voss has been gone for a while now ;)

[Toga]

While I'm kinda adding my 5c here and there, as I said, we passed the trade as we didn't see any glaring problems with it, but still I don't agree with Rocky getting tossed around each trade period! Would love him in our team :P

[meow meow]

I'm not saying Rocky will be a spud. 120 is still a flowering good average. It's possible to maintain his 130 average by in my opinion he won't. One less tackle, mark, handball and kick a game is all it will take for that drop off. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the extra mids will have that effect on his output.

Plus I need a back up ruck! Rocky is gun, but I don't like his chances of getting M/R dpp.

[Jroo]

You don't get any more points for a handball in a winning team. A hard ball win then effective handball scores the same in a win as it does in a loss.

Yeah, that's why I don't agree with it. Just because Brisbane will win more games,shouldn't really have an effect on him.

So Gibbs is 26 next year and obvioulsy still has room to improve... but Rocky is 25 and has less chance? :o

In 2012 Swan averaged 126, Pendlebury 124, Beams 123, and Sidebottom 106... so talk of Redden, Beams and co taking points off Rocky means little. Pies were a successful side but midfielders still find the footy in lesser sides.

Basically you can't argue that Rocky will definitely drop back in ave and then argue that Gibbs will increase, and vice versa. Both have equal chance to improve/drop off

Why can't i? That's my opinion.

Yes. Rocky has peaked, how can he get much better than an average of 130, lol. Gibbs can easily get better.

Apart from Hanley and Zorko, they had Bewick, Aish and co. In the mids last year, Someone had to find the ball, there's no chance Rocky will be able to find the ball this year with Beams, Redden, Rich, Christo, Robbo all there.

At a similar age, Ablett went from 114 to 132. He then went to 140 the next year. No-one would have thought that possible back then. Rocky will probably never be the player that Ablett has become in real life, but in terms of fantasy scoring, why can't he?

I just told you why  ;)

You said Rocky has peaked and Gibbs hasn't, yet Rocky is a year younger....

You said that players will still steal points off each other. I showed you that...
In 2012 Swan averaged 126, Pendlebury 124, Beams 123, and Sidebottom 106
Another example is in 2009 Ablett went 140, Jelwood 111, Chappy 115, Bartel 109, Corey 108

Midfielders only tend to drop away if they are forced out of midfield rotations. Rocky is still a top 3 mid at Brisbane
If anything they will win more footy because they'll have a stronger core group and he will improve

So? Just because he's younger doesn't mean he can't peak earlier  ???

Yeah so? They did steal points of each other? I've said heaps of times that I think he can still stay at 120, which is pretty close to what all does guys are averaging there.

[kilbluff1985]

you do get more points in a winning team especially close games

[Jroo]

I'm not saying Rocky will be a spud. 120 is still a flowering good average. It's possible to maintain his 130 average by in my opinion he won't. One less tackle, mark, handball and kick a game is all it will take for that drop off. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the extra mids will have that effect on his output.

Plus I need a back up ruck! Rocky is gun, but I don't like his chances of getting M/R dpp.

Yes! That's what I'm trying to say.
Rocky 120 --> Gibbs 105 = 15 point loss

Sandi 110 --> Gilbert 75 = 35 point gain + much better depth

[meow meow]

So Gibbs is 26 next year and obvioulsy still has room to improve... but Rocky is 25 and has less chance? :o

In 2012 Swan averaged 126, Pendlebury 124, Beams 123, and Sidebottom 106... so talk of Redden, Beams and co taking points off Rocky means little. Pies were a successful side but midfielders still find the footy in lesser sides.

Basically you can't argue that Rocky will definitely drop back in ave and then argue that Gibbs will increase, and vice versa. Both have equal chance to improve/drop off

Why can't i? That's my opinion.

Yes. Rocky has peaked, how can he get much better than an average of 130, lol. Gibbs can easily get better.

Apart from Hanley and Zorko, they had Bewick, Aish and co. In the mids last year, Someone had to find the ball, there's no chance Rocky will be able to find the ball this year with Beams, Redden, Rich, Christo, Robbo all there.

At a similar age, Ablett went from 114 to 132. He then went to 140 the next year. No-one would have thought that possible back then. Rocky will probably never be the player that Ablett has become in real life, but in terms of fantasy scoring, why can't he?

I just told you why  ;)

You said Rocky has peaked and Gibbs hasn't, yet Rocky is a year younger....

You said that players will still steal points off each other. I showed you that...
In 2012 Swan averaged 126, Pendlebury 124, Beams 123, and Sidebottom 106
Another example is in 2009 Ablett went 140, Jelwood 111, Chappy 115, Bartel 109, Corey 108

Midfielders only tend to drop away if they are forced out of midfield rotations. Rocky is still a top 3 mid at Brisbane
If anything they will win more footy because they'll have a stronger core group and he will improve

In my opinion, Rockliff got a ton of easy kicks across half back. I bet his rebound 50's are huge for a mid. With Hanley not needed in the mids, and the possible role of Rich across half back these points are going to go to other guys instead of Rockliff.

You don't get any more points for a handball in a winning team. A hard ball win then effective handball scores the same in a win as it does in a loss.

no it doesn't if it's a close game and it's one of the reasons the team won they get influence points

or if they lose in a close game the winning team can take points off them

Even players on the losing side get their points boosted in the dying moments. Plus this only happens in games where the result is under a goal. Factoring in how many times this will happen in a Brisbane game when determining a players value is kind of absurd and about as speculative as it gets.

[kilbluff1985]

you still get extra points though

if your team gets smashed by 60+ points you wont get as much points if your team had won

[Toga]

I move that Rockliff be traded to Beijing for Alipate Carlile - pretty fair deal so that should kill any need for debate.

[Ricochet]

You don't get any more points for a handball in a winning team. A hard ball win then effective handball scores the same in a win as it does in a loss.

Yeah, that's why I don't agree with it. Just because Brisbane will win more games,shouldn't really have an effect on him.

So Gibbs is 26 next year and obvioulsy still has room to improve... but Rocky is 25 and has less chance? :o

In 2012 Swan averaged 126, Pendlebury 124, Beams 123, and Sidebottom 106... so talk of Redden, Beams and co taking points off Rocky means little. Pies were a successful side but midfielders still find the footy in lesser sides.

Basically you can't argue that Rocky will definitely drop back in ave and then argue that Gibbs will increase, and vice versa. Both have equal chance to improve/drop off

Why can't i? That's my opinion.

Yes. Rocky has peaked, how can he get much better than an average of 130, lol. Gibbs can easily get better.

Apart from Hanley and Zorko, they had Bewick, Aish and co. In the mids last year, Someone had to find the ball, there's no chance Rocky will be able to find the ball this year with Beams, Redden, Rich, Christo, Robbo all there.

At a similar age, Ablett went from 114 to 132. He then went to 140 the next year. No-one would have thought that possible back then. Rocky will probably never be the player that Ablett has become in real life, but in terms of fantasy scoring, why can't he?

I just told you why  ;)

You said Rocky has peaked and Gibbs hasn't, yet Rocky is a year younger....

You said that players will still steal points off each other. I showed you that...
In 2012 Swan averaged 126, Pendlebury 124, Beams 123, and Sidebottom 106
Another example is in 2009 Ablett went 140, Jelwood 111, Chappy 115, Bartel 109, Corey 108

Midfielders only tend to drop away if they are forced out of midfield rotations. Rocky is still a top 3 mid at Brisbane
If anything they will win more footy because they'll have a stronger core group and he will improve

So? Just because he's younger doesn't mean he can't peak earlier  ???

Yeah so? They did steal points of each other? I've said heaps of times that I think he can still stay at 120, which is pretty close to what all does guys are averaging there.

In those years...
2012: Swan improved from 122 to 126, Beams improved from 101 to 123, Sidebottom improved from 83 to 106, only Pendles declined from 129 to 125 and he is the #1 target for opponents and taggers, Rocky is not.

Players generally peak closer to 30 mate, and even then some improve after 30. Not at 24

[RaisyDaisy]

Guys, you have resubbed the trade and kept it as is

This conversation is going on forever, and around in circles

I think the coaches have seen enough here now to decide if they are going to pass or neg it :P

[Jroo]

In my opinion, Rockliff got a ton of easy kicks across half back. I bet his rebound 50's are huge for a mid. With Hanley not needed in the mids, and the possible role of Rich across half back these points are going to go to other guys instead of Rockliff.

Yep, highest average for a mid, only behind Brandon Ellis

[meow meow]

you still get extra points though

if your team gets smashed by 60+ points you wont get as much points if your team had won

Factually incorrect.

Heaps of the best scorers are from shower teams. Maybe players score higher in wins because they played better, hence the reason for them winning! They don't just say "Oh, Zac Dawson's team won so lets give him an extra 10 points".

Some players in losing teams get scaled up.

[Ricochet]

In my opinion, Rockliff got a ton of easy kicks across half back. I bet his rebound 50's are huge for a mid. With Hanley not needed in the mids, and the possible role of Rich across half back these points are going to go to other guys instead of Rockliff.

Yep, highest average for a mid, only behind Brandon Ellis

well not exactly 100%. Sam Gibson, Ellis and NDS all had more.

Also Rocky gets those because he floats back as a midfielder. Brissie weren't playing him on the half backline

[Master Q]

Guys, you have resubbed the trade and kept it as is

This conversation is going on forever, and around in circles

I think the coaches have seen enough here now to decide if they are going to pass or neg it :P

Was going to say this.

Here's an idea - Ossie puts the trade to vote next Monday and all coaches get to decide if they want to pass or neg it?  :P