NBA Season 2014-2015

Jay · June 21, 2015, 12:37:54 PM

Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 12:01:11 AM
LeBron almost dragged Della+Timofey through vs the best team. I have no doubt that if LeBron had Marc Gasol/Anthony Davis and any decent spreadshooter, LBJ takes every ring.

LBJ+bottom 5 NBA players makes the playoffs, so LeBron plus Hibbert+Krover easy makes CF.

Any top 5 player + AD/Gasol + a lights out shooter would dominate. Doesn't mean they'll win every ring.

You're underrating some of the teams out west. The 13-14 Spurs and 14-15 Warriors were elite.

Andrew3737 · June 21, 2015, 01:13:47 PM

You are underating the elite that is LBJ. 5 finals in a row, taking one of the worst teams of the the modern era to to 60+wins 4 years in a row, including finals appearances.

Jay · June 21, 2015, 01:34:09 PM

Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 01:13:47 PM
You are underating the elite that is LBJ. 5 finals in a row, taking one of the worst teams of the the modern era to to 60+wins 4 years in a row, including finals appearances.

He's not as good as he was man. Cleveland weren't even in the top 5 teams in the league imo. GSW, Spurs, Clipps, Memphis, Houston all were better. So you have to take that into account when saying he dragged a team to the finals - Durant for example, fully healthy could probably do that in the east too. The frickin' Hawks managed to win 60 games in that conference...

He played great in the finals, but what he produced did not even lead to an above average offense. A few years ago it probably would have. That's two years in a row now that a LBJ team has been comprehensively beat in the finals. He's still the best, but it's not as far and away as it was a few years ago. Davis and healthy Durant are coming. And saying he would win every ring until he's 40 is just stupid.

jvalles69 · June 21, 2015, 01:40:52 PM

Quote from: Jayman on June 21, 2015, 01:34:09 PM
Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 01:13:47 PM
You are underating the elite that is LBJ. 5 finals in a row, taking one of the worst teams of the the modern era to to 60+wins 4 years in a row, including finals appearances.
He's not as good as he was man. Cleveland weren't even in the top 5 teams in the league imo. GSW, Spurs, Clipps, Memphis, Houston all were better. So you have to take that into account when saying he dragged a team to the finals - Durant for example, fully healthy could probably do that in the east too. The frickin' Hawks managed to win 60 games in that conference...

He played great in the finals, but what he produced did not even lead to an above average offense. A few years ago it probably would have. That's two years in a row now that a LBJ team has been comprehensively beat in the finals. He's still the best, but it's not as far and away as it was a few years ago. Davis and healthy Durant are coming.

Lebron still has areas he can improve so I think it's pretty early to be saying he's not as good as he was, he's just having to carry way too much on board at the wrong end of the season. Cleveland had the best record in the last 35 games of the entire 14-15 season with a record of 33-2, that puts them easily in the top 5 teams of the season. I understand Lebron has done some showerty things like "the decision" and said some things that people don't like, but it still doesn't change the fact he is hands down the best player we have seen since MJ and Kobe. I can't ever see anyone like Lebron in the near future that has it all.

Andrew3737 · June 21, 2015, 02:08:22 PM

I was more talking about Cleveland in 07-10. They were awful yet he dragged legit imo the worst team of the century to the finals and 4 straight 60+ win seasons. As for current, if he had an all star defensive C and a spread shooter he wipes. He really does. Kevin Love was the wrong player to pick. Horford was avaliable during trade time, would be an amazing player to pick up for any team that isnt DMC/AD. Davis is elite and will make playoffs next year with a terrible team as well. However, the Pelicans with only Davis will never do anything what LeBron and that god awful Cleveland team did.

I was going to agree with Jvalles, till he mentioned Kobe....

jvalles69 · June 21, 2015, 02:25:04 PM

Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 02:08:22 PM
I was more talking about Cleveland in 07-10. They were awful yet he dragged legit imo the worst team of the century to the finals and 4 straight 60+ win seasons. As for current, if he had an all star defensive C and a spread shooter he wipes. He really does. Kevin Love was the wrong player to pick. Horford was avaliable during trade time, would be an amazing player to pick up for any team that isnt DMC/AD. Davis is elite and will make playoffs next year with a terrible team as well. However, the Pelicans with only Davis will never do anything what LeBron and that god awful Cleveland team did.

I was going to agree with Jvalles, till he mentioned Kobe....

Haha, I was only going to say MJ, then I didn't want to piss off the Kobe lovers! ;)

jvalles69 · June 21, 2015, 02:26:23 PM

Isn't Millsap a free agent?

Jay · June 21, 2015, 02:36:05 PM

Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 02:08:22 PM
I was more talking about Cleveland in 07-10. They were awful yet he dragged legit imo the worst team of the century to the finals and 4 straight 60+ win seasons. As for current, if he had an all star defensive C and a spread shooter he wipes. He really does. Kevin Love was the wrong player to pick. Horford was avaliable during trade time, would be an amazing player to pick up for any team that isnt DMC/AD. Davis is elite and will make playoffs next year with a terrible team as well. However, the Pelicans with only Davis will never do anything what LeBron and that god awful Cleveland team did.

I was going to agree with Jvalles, till he mentioned Kobe....

Well yeah, I'm not debating that 2007-2010 LeBron would wipe with an all star defensive C + shooting. It's now that I don't think he's good enough to dominate whoever comes out of the west like you say he would.

And yeah, LBJ >>>>> Kobe, but he's still great. 14 seasons with a 20+ PER is fantastic. Plus a threepeat, and two more rings without another top 5 player.

05-06 Kobe is one of the best seasons since MJ imo. Won 45 games in the west with Odom, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame rounding out the starting five. 111.3 offensive rating when Kobe was on the court, 92.4 when he was off it. That's the difference between having the 3rd best offense in the league that season, and having the worst by a comfortable margin. Then pushed 54 win Phoenix to 7 games in the first round where Kobe averaged 27.9 points @ 55 eFG%, 6.3 rebounds, 5.1 assists. For the record, only KD and Bird have put up those numbers for an entire season.

I know you can do the same kinda scenario for LBJ, but Kobe was elite too.

Holz · June 21, 2015, 03:41:03 PM

Quote from: Jayman on June 21, 2015, 01:34:09 PM
Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 01:13:47 PM
You are underating the elite that is LBJ. 5 finals in a row, taking one of the worst teams of the the modern era to to 60+wins 4 years in a row, including finals appearances.
He's not as good as he was man. Cleveland weren't even in the top 5 teams in the league imo. GSW, Spurs, Clipps, Memphis, Houston all were better. So you have to take that into account when saying he dragged a team to the finals - Durant for example, fully healthy could probably do that in the east too. The frickin' Hawks managed to win 60 games in that conference...

He played great in the finals, but what he produced did not even lead to an above average offense. A few years ago it probably would have. That's two years in a row now that a LBJ team has been comprehensively beat in the finals. He's still the best, but it's not as far and away as it was a few years ago. Davis and healthy Durant are coming. And saying he would win every ring until he's 40 is just stupid.

How were they comprehensively beaten?

They were a shot away in game 1 from going 3-0

Jay · June 21, 2015, 03:49:32 PM

Quote from: Holz on June 21, 2015, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: Jayman on June 21, 2015, 01:34:09 PM
Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 01:13:47 PM
You are underating the elite that is LBJ. 5 finals in a row, taking one of the worst teams of the the modern era to to 60+wins 4 years in a row, including finals appearances.
He's not as good as he was man. Cleveland weren't even in the top 5 teams in the league imo. GSW, Spurs, Clipps, Memphis, Houston all were better. So you have to take that into account when saying he dragged a team to the finals - Durant for example, fully healthy could probably do that in the east too. The frickin' Hawks managed to win 60 games in that conference...

He played great in the finals, but what he produced did not even lead to an above average offense. A few years ago it probably would have. That's two years in a row now that a LBJ team has been comprehensively beat in the finals. He's still the best, but it's not as far and away as it was a few years ago. Davis and healthy Durant are coming. And saying he would win every ring until he's 40 is just stupid.

How were they comprehensively beaten?

They were a shot away in game 1 from going 3-0

The same way Memphis were. Once the Warriors figured them out (Benched Bogut, started Andre) they won the next 3, and none were really close. Game over.

Andrew3737 · June 21, 2015, 04:00:40 PM

Are you talking about 05-06 where Kobe didn't even get passed the first round? Just an elite player in a terrible team. For those 3 seasons without help, Kobe didn't make the playoffs or got eliminated in the first round. Lets face it, Pau Gasol was amazing in both playoffs and deserved to take one of those Finals MVP. LeBron however took that terrible team to the freaking finals. But anyway, I still stand by my statement of if LeBron had a defensive big man all star and a shooter, he has the best team and the best chance of winning every ring until he retires.

Holz · June 21, 2015, 04:05:01 PM

Quote from: Jayman on June 21, 2015, 03:49:32 PM
Quote from: Holz on June 21, 2015, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: Jayman on June 21, 2015, 01:34:09 PM
Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 01:13:47 PM
You are underating the elite that is LBJ. 5 finals in a row, taking one of the worst teams of the the modern era to to 60+wins 4 years in a row, including finals appearances.
He's not as good as he was man. Cleveland weren't even in the top 5 teams in the league imo. GSW, Spurs, Clipps, Memphis, Houston all were better. So you have to take that into account when saying he dragged a team to the finals - Durant for example, fully healthy could probably do that in the east too. The frickin' Hawks managed to win 60 games in that conference...

He played great in the finals, but what he produced did not even lead to an above average offense. A few years ago it probably would have. That's two years in a row now that a LBJ team has been comprehensively beat in the finals. He's still the best, but it's not as far and away as it was a few years ago. Davis and healthy Durant are coming. And saying he would win every ring until he's 40 is just stupid.

How were they comprehensively beaten?

They were a shot away in game 1 from going 3-0
The same way Memphis were. Once the Warriors figured them out (Benched Bogut, started Andre) they won the next 3, and none were really close. Game over.

its a little due to that but its alot more to do with the cavs just running out of legs. It doesnt take a genius to just push the ball up when your playing against 7 guys with a squad 10+ deep. Especially when the other team has its 2nd and 3rd option out.

Jay · June 21, 2015, 04:07:02 PM

Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 04:00:40 PM
Are you talking about 05-06 where Kobe didn't even get passed the first round? Just an elite player in a terrible team. For those 3 seasons without help, Kobe didn't make the playoffs or got eliminated in the first round. Lets face it, Pau Gasol was amazing in both playoffs and deserved to take one of those Finals MVP. LeBron however took that terrible team to the freaking finals. But anyway, I still stand by my statement of if LeBron had a defensive big man all star and a shooter, he has the best team and the best chance of winning every ring until he retires.

That is very different to saying he'd win every single one.

Andrew3737 · June 21, 2015, 04:10:30 PM

There is no sure thing in Basketball or any sport. But having the best team and best chance is pretty much the same thing as winning every ring.

Jay · June 21, 2015, 04:17:59 PM

Quote from: Andrew3737 on June 21, 2015, 04:10:30 PM
There is no sure thing in Basketball or any sport. But having the best team and best chance is pretty much the same thing as winning every ring.

The thing is that, Wade, LBJ, Bosh only went 2/4. And Irving, LBJ, Love couldn't snatch the #1 seed. There are some elite teams out west that are just better than LeBron even if he has good team-mates.