NBA Season 2014-2015

[Holz]

Brian Windhorst reporting: Lowry not interested in Miami, The Heat r in fact eyeing Pau Gasol 8)

Pau (C)
Bosh (PF)
LBJ (SF)
?? (SG)
Wade (PG)

That would be a pretty impressive team.

I would go

Gasol (C)
Bosh (PF)
James (SF)
Wade (SG)
Nappier (PG)

I like that sqaud.

[Master Q]

Beat me too it Holz.

Shabazz will start.

[Jay]

Just to wrap up... I think Philly have played the rebuding stage very well and now have a clear direction for the future. As a Boston fan in the middle of a (half) rebuild, I'm jealous of the way Philly are set up with their stockpiling of assets. I'm not sure Noel and Embiid play much together but it won't be hard to trade either given how highly young bigs are valued.

Speaking of overvaluing bigs, what the flower were Washington thinking? This move and the possible re-signing of Aroza doesn't get them over the hump. They should've let both walk and save the cap space for that third superstar to go with Wall and Beal. Signing 30 year old Gortat for that much just stinks of being satisfied staying as a 3-5 seed...

Pau is not the rim protector and offensive rebounded that Miami need... Plus, I don't think he signs there. Remember read something about teams he is interested in and Miami weren't one ??? I'd like to see Phoenix go after Gasol.. Giving them a legit post presence to go with their dual PG lineup.

And yes, Napier will be the starting PG for Miami. He is NBA ready and LeBron loves him.

[valkorum]

Brian Windhorst reporting: Lowry not interested in Miami, The Heat r in fact eyeing Pau Gasol 8)

Pau (C)
Bosh (PF)
LBJ (SF)
?? (SG)
Wade (PG)

That would be a pretty impressive team.

I would go

Gasol (C)
Bosh (PF)
James (SF)
Wade (SG)
Nappier (PG)

I like that sqaud.

I knew I was missing someone

[RiOtChEsS]

It might be hard to get decent value for them if they cant "stay on the court" u cant just assume players come back from those and injuries the same, let alone get better, hows that derrick rose guy coming along...

[Holz]

It might be hard to get decent value for them if they cant "stay on the court" u cant just assume players come back from those and injuries the same, let alone get better, hows that derrick rose guy coming along...

the other benefit of them is by taking them they also make sure they get better picks in the future. By going with Noel they got a top 3 pick.

with embiid and saric missing next year they could go lottery again.

MCW, Embiid, Noel and another lottery thats how you rebuild properly.

love the embiid pick personally

people questioned/question Anthony Daivs and if I had to pick anyone to start my franchise I would go him over Lebron and Durrant. Not sure Embiid is as good but he is similar to Davis.

[Mat0369]

the other benefit of them is by taking them they also make sure they get better picks in the future. By going with Noel they got a top 3 pick.

with embiid and saric missing next year they could go lottery again.

MCW, Embiid, Noel and another lottery thats how you rebuild properly.

love the embiid pick personally

people questioned/question Anthony Daivs and if I had to pick anyone to start my franchise I would go him over Lebron and Durrant. Not sure Embiid is as good but he is similar to Davis.

Yup, Hinkie is all about acquiring assets. By staggering MCW/Noel/Embiid/Saric you set up your future core and stagger their contracts. Although they play in a crappy East, they have focused hard on building defensively through the draft and have not picked up anyone that can shoot. That insures they suck again and can get another top 5 pick. When arguably your best shooter is Thad you know you are in trouble offensively. They have also made a call out to Avery Bradley, he is good defensively but has no offensive game. When Hinkie was in Houston, he went the same way about it, eventually the stockpiling turned into the James Harden trade.

You can say these guys have no value if they can't get on the court, you need to remember that Bynum with f'ed up knees was traded for a 1st round pick and assets to Philly, Kwame Brown has bounced around the league and gotten some decent cash, what the Warriors gave up for Bogut who has also always been injured in his career. Teams will give up a lot more then they should for a big with huge potential, it has been proven, this makes these guys assets. It's all about the assets.

[RiOtChEsS]

Wow talk about going "lottery again" as a good thing, u can have all the assets u want, if they aren't playing and winning basketball games ur fans don't come to games they don't buy jerseys and i personally don't think drafting multiple injured players is a good idea, can anyone find out what the stats say regarding a top 3 player that was injured going on to have a good career?
Blake Griffin was drafted then did his knee, that is the only good case i can think of...

[Mat0369]

The fans know where the team is at and this is a product of the league. You need to build a really good team like the Spurs or have a superstar to be in contention. Fans don't want to see you make the 8 seed every season to be bounced out by 3 guys that can't do it on their own. You need to either build through the draft or magically end up with a group of superstars willing to come and play on your franchise. To do that you need to either suck, be a big market team or have a superstar already.

Teams were not going to be knocking down the door to play with Jrue and Hinkie realised that. You take 3 years of sucking (2 of them organised) to build this team from the ground up. They were behind the 8 ball when Hinkie got there, they had traded away their young assets (Vucevic, Harkless and a first) for that bum Bynum who was still on the books, ET with 2 years to run and a team option, Hawesome and Thad. The only two good players on that team were Jrue and Thad but they are not superstars. Players are less likely to spend money on a team destined for mediocrity then one that has a clear plan to rebuild with lots of young high end talent. It only takes one great player to take you into the playoffs in the NBA, especially the weak eastern conference.

In terms of guys coming off injuries when they were drafted, I can't think off the top of my head, in terms of guys that have had navicular injuries in the NBA, those guys include MJ, Kevin Martin, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Kevin McHale and Yao. Yao is the only one that it pretty much ended his career.

[Jay]

Just a note on building through the draft.. This rarely works! You can look at the OKC model but that is the only case where a team truly has built from the bottom in recent years. You can look at the Pacers, but they've probably maxed out as a conference finals contender but nothing more.

Gotta have superstars to win in the NBA.. The draft is a crapshoot, who knows if the picks then into real All-NBA talent.

They have also made a call out to Avery Bradley, he is good defensively but has no offensive game.

Good move by Philly. They don't have anyone at the 2 guard and Avery would be a nice for next to MCW. Is an excellent perimeter defender, in particularly, guarding the opposition PG. Due to only being a tad over 6ft he'll struggle on the bigger guards (Harden, Kobe, Klay, Afflalo etc) but MCW has the length to guard those guys. Avery is excellent off the ball offensively, he makes great cuts and can be a shooting threat too. He's developed a pull-up midrange game and has always been a solid corner 3pts shooter.

I like him as a player but of Philly offer him anymore than 6mill a year, so long Avery. Ainge has a history of overpaying role players (Green, Bass, Lee) and this could be another case of that.. Not what you want for a rebuilding team.

[Master Q]

Green and Bass aren't really role players... but I agree generally.

[RiOtChEsS]

The fans know where the team is at and this is a product of the league. You need to build a really good team like the Spurs or have a superstar to be in contention. Fans don't want to see you make the 8 seed every season to be bounced out by 3 guys that can't do it on their own. You need to either build through the draft or magically end up with a group of superstars willing to come and play on your franchise. To do that you need to either suck, be a big market team or have a superstar already.

Teams were not going to be knocking down the door to play with Jrue and Hinkie realised that. You take 3 years of sucking (2 of them organised) to build this team from the ground up. They were behind the 8 ball when Hinkie got there, they had traded away their young assets (Vucevic, Harkless and a first) for that bum Bynum who was still on the books, ET with 2 years to run and a team option, Hawesome and Thad. The only two good players on that team were Jrue and Thad but they are not superstars. Players are less likely to spend money on a team destined for mediocrity then one that has a clear plan to rebuild with lots of young high end talent. It only takes one great player to take you into the playoffs in the NBA, especially the weak eastern conference.

In terms of guys coming off injuries when they were drafted, I can't think off the top of my head, in terms of guys that have had navicular injuries in the NBA, those guys include MJ, Kevin Martin, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Kevin McHale and Yao. Yao is the only one that it pretty much ended his career.

yeah that isnt my point, drafting a talented guy who gets injured is different to drafting a guy who is injured and talented, ino Greg Oden had a broken shooting hand during the draft, im gonna look up the list bcos id like to see some cases of it succeeding, i understand the theory, i dont think its as high chance to succeed, injured players tend to keep getting injured, i dont think its good for a team who already ranks 29th in attendance.

Green and Bass aren't really role players... but I agree generally.

Bass isnt a role player ??? could u enlighten us as to what he is?

[Master Q]

While Rondo was out, Boston's main offensive weapons were Green and Bass. Bass was was the most experienced big man on our list and started the majority of games for the Celtics...

edit: The stats might lie a little, but I watched a ton of Boston games last season.

[RiOtChEsS]

cant really find anything specific to being drafted while injured atm...
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/tall-players-like-joel-embiid-are-more-prone-to-injury/

[Mat0369]

Greg Oden skews those numbers heavily. If you actually read the guys who have had the same injury that Embiid has, the only one that it has severely effected was Yao. You can also look at guys like DeJuan Blair, he has no ACL's and rarely misses through injuries. The back issues are a bigger worry then the foot issues.  Before the draft I was reading up on all the talk on Embiid due to the horror word 'navicular'.  It could be a number of things, he has a stress fracture in his foot, he has one in his back, that just means he is skeletally immature. Hes only a teenager, and he will heal, and when he is skeletally mature he will be fine.


I read this in terms of recurring injuries which I found interesting.

In terms of recurring injuries the only worries should be 1. his foot type and 2. his bone density.

1. If he has an in-correctable structural issue in his foot (or feet) like severely fallen arches, flat feet, etc., then that's a problem that won't go away, so I wouldn't draft him.

2. If the results of his bone density scan is that his bones are deficient in density (prone to fractures), and cannot be corrected through treatment, diet, and resistance exercise, then I wouldn't draft him.

  If his foot structure is normal or can be 100% helped with sneaker design, and his bone density is either normal or can be normalized (he's still young and growing), then I'd draft him and sit him out till he's physically ready. I imagine team doctors are all over these things along with other issues I haven't considered. At the end of the day, he is a very talented prospect who could be a game changer, but if he can't stay healthy, then he doesn't really help at all.

The Sixers aren't winning anything for at least a few years anyway. They will be living in the lottery for that time, and so, if like many big men, he grew so fast his bones are long but not dense, that issue may be temporary. It's similar to osteoporosis in older women. Their skeletons lose calcium and it has to be replaced or they suffer unnecessary fractures easily. There are treatment regimens that work pretty well in them, so I'd imagine similar treatments could work a great deal better in a young growing hyper-athletic male. If that is the case, and only the doctors will know, then the Sixers could get a steal for the ages, at #3 with him. If that's not the case, then there's no way they should draft him.

I'll put it to you this way using the AFL as an example. A certain player had knee issues as a junior and therefore saw his draft stock drop. He ended up going at pick 7 but has clearly been the best player in his draft class.

So for every Greg Oden you get someone like DeJuan Blair. Without his medical records we don't get to see the reasons for these injuries. The 6'ers had access to these records, after the Bynum fiasco you would think they would avoid any players that look completely cooked before they get there. Noel was 100% ready to go at the end of last season, they rested him since the tank was on. The plan is the same for Embiid.