Essendon ASADA update

[Ziplock]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

You didn't answer my question, just plainly asking you what scenario do you think is most likely to have happened with all the current evidence.

I'm not privy to 'current evidence' and therefore I can't make accurate judgements myself on the matter. The people who ARE privy to the evidence (ASADA) placed 34 players on its register of findings for athletes who have breached the anti-doping code. That is the biggest stick that make me form my opinion.

You can be put on the register of findings and be proven innocent though.

Thats the whole point Im trying to make.

You can't formulate a guilty verdict before the verdict is given.

Well... you can... if you want... which you have... Im just trying to tell you how our legal system "actually" works.

Peoples hatred of other clubs leaves no empathy or compassion. Opinions were set upon the moment Essendon self reported, purely based on the games age old rivalries. Which sucks, because I love every team. I love the game.

I hate that illegal drugs like Cocaine, MDMA and Meth/Speed are used by countless footballers (Ive seen it with my own eyes) but you can be caught 3 times and have your identity protected before you are vilified.

Illicit drugs kill people... and peptides are used for healing damaged tissue....

Is that not a glaring injustice?

the use of illicit drugs kills people, but you'll probably just flower yourself up, while peptides breaks down the whole integrity of the competition. People do illicit drugs for fun, and generally, performance enhancing drugs to cheat.

If you think its ok for kids role models to be smashing lines of coke every weekend, then thats your business. I think its hypocritical.

Legal forms of Thymosin are used for damaged tissue rehabilitation. Still are. Your definition of a performance based drug that enhanced players is wrong.

Essendon got in trouble because Beta 4 wasn't classified yet.

Im stopping here. My need to argue with uninformed opinions has expired.

mate, don't make assumptions of what I think is acceptable or not and don't call my opinions uninformed. I was giving you the rational behind the current 3 strike system, not saying that I agree with it. 

Are those forms of thymosin legal in sports? Because the way I always read the case was that is was performance enhancing because of it's tissue repair ability- muscle building involved damaging your muscles and then recovering, if you shorten recovery time, you give the player's an edge. If I'm run in that assumption then I stand corrected.

[kilbluff1985]

some illicit drugs could also enhance performance

[silloc]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

You didn't answer my question, just plainly asking you what scenario do you think is most likely to have happened with all the current evidence.

I'm not privy to 'current evidence' and therefore I can't make accurate judgements myself on the matter. The people who ARE privy to the evidence (ASADA) placed 34 players on its register of findings for athletes who have breached the anti-doping code. That is the biggest stick that make me form my opinion.

You can be put on the register of findings and be proven innocent though.

Thats the whole point Im trying to make.

You can't formulate a guilty verdict before the verdict is given.

Well... you can... if you want... which you have... Im just trying to tell you how our legal system "actually" works.

Peoples hatred of other clubs leaves no empathy or compassion. Opinions were set upon the moment Essendon self reported, purely based on the games age old rivalries. Which sucks, because I love every team. I love the game.

I hate that illegal drugs like Cocaine, MDMA and Meth/Speed are used by countless footballers (Ive seen it with my own eyes) but you can be caught 3 times and have your identity protected before you are vilified.

Illicit drugs kill people... and peptides are used for healing damaged tissue....

Is that not a glaring injustice?

the use of illicit drugs kills people, but you'll probably just flower yourself up, while peptides breaks down the whole integrity of the competition. People do illicit drugs for fun, and generally, performance enhancing drugs to cheat.

If you think its ok for kids role models to be smashing lines of coke every weekend, then thats your business. I think its hypocritical.

Legal forms of Thymosin are used for damaged tissue rehabilitation. Still are. Your definition of a performance based drug that enhanced players is wrong.

Essendon got in trouble because Beta 4 wasn't classified yet.

Im stopping here. My need to argue with uninformed opinions has expired.

mate, don't make assumptions of what I think is acceptable or not and don't call my opinions uninformed. I was giving you the rational behind the current 3 strike system, not saying that I agree with it. 

Are those forms of thymosin legal in sports? Because the way I always read the case was that is was performance enhancing because of it's tissue repair ability- muscle building involved damaging your muscles and then recovering, if you shorten recovery time, you give the player's an edge. If I'm run in that assumption then I stand corrected.

Yes the non beta-4 ones are definitely legal.

And drak you are wrong, essendon aren't saying they had thymosin beta-4 at all. What they had before classification, was AOD967 (numbers probably wrong) which they claim they got permission for, which if was incorrect you'd imagine they'd be getting charged with that as well.

They maintain they had the legal thymosin.

[Drak]

Rationale? Behind the system?

At what point in your statement was that delved in to?

Stating that drugs are done for "fun" doesn't have a lot of depth or argumentative weight in my opinion.

[Drak]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

You didn't answer my question, just plainly asking you what scenario do you think is most likely to have happened with all the current evidence.

I'm not privy to 'current evidence' and therefore I can't make accurate judgements myself on the matter. The people who ARE privy to the evidence (ASADA) placed 34 players on its register of findings for athletes who have breached the anti-doping code. That is the biggest stick that make me form my opinion.

You can be put on the register of findings and be proven innocent though.

Thats the whole point Im trying to make.

You can't formulate a guilty verdict before the verdict is given.

Well... you can... if you want... which you have... Im just trying to tell you how our legal system "actually" works.

Peoples hatred of other clubs leaves no empathy or compassion. Opinions were set upon the moment Essendon self reported, purely based on the games age old rivalries. Which sucks, because I love every team. I love the game.

I hate that illegal drugs like Cocaine, MDMA and Meth/Speed are used by countless footballers (Ive seen it with my own eyes) but you can be caught 3 times and have your identity protected before you are vilified.

Illicit drugs kill people... and peptides are used for healing damaged tissue....

Is that not a glaring injustice?

the use of illicit drugs kills people, but you'll probably just flower yourself up, while peptides breaks down the whole integrity of the competition. People do illicit drugs for fun, and generally, performance enhancing drugs to cheat.

If you think its ok for kids role models to be smashing lines of coke every weekend, then thats your business. I think its hypocritical.

Legal forms of Thymosin are used for damaged tissue rehabilitation. Still are. Your definition of a performance based drug that enhanced players is wrong.

Essendon got in trouble because Beta 4 wasn't classified yet.

Im stopping here. My need to argue with uninformed opinions has expired.

mate, don't make assumptions of what I think is acceptable or not and don't call my opinions uninformed. I was giving you the rational behind the current 3 strike system, not saying that I agree with it. 

Are those forms of thymosin legal in sports? Because the way I always read the case was that is was performance enhancing because of it's tissue repair ability- muscle building involved damaging your muscles and then recovering, if you shorten recovery time, you give the player's an edge. If I'm run in that assumption then I stand corrected.

Yes the non beta-4 ones are definitely legal.

And drak you are wrong, essendon aren't saying they had thymosin beta-4 at all. What they had before classification, was AOD967 (numbers probably wrong) which they claim they got permission for, which if was incorrect you'd imagine they'd be getting charged with that as well.

They maintain they had the legal thymosin.

Yeah I read my rant again... I was slightly off my face at midnight last night.


I meant to say Thymomodulin.

[Ricochet]

SuperFooty (AFL) ‏@superfooty
BREAKING: #AFL anti-doping tribunal to hand down verdict on @EssendonFC 34 on March 31 - 2 days before Round 1 starts

[silloc]

Don't be flowering with me now mate

[silloc]

YAY! DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD! WHICH OLD WITCH!!?!??! THE SUPPLEMENT SAGA WITCH!

[T Dog]

SuperFooty (AFL) ‏@superfooty
BREAKING: #AFL anti-doping tribunal to hand down verdict on @EssendonFC 34 on March 31 - 2 days before Round 1 starts

Is it just me ? My care factor has diminished to a very very low level.  :'(

[silloc]

THE END IS IN SIGHT!

[Ricochet]

THE END IS IN SIGHT!

[silloc]

as I say this though, watch ASADA turn around and go "nope we don't like the verdict, lets go again. And whilst we're at it lets bring everyone else in on the fun."

*proceeds to then jump in front of moving train*

[Ricochet]

as I say this though, watch ASADA turn around and go "nope we don't like the verdict, lets go again. And whilst were at it lets bring everyone else in on the fun."

*proceeds to then jump in front of moving train*

Lol yeh. I'm 100% sure this won't be the end date

[Capper]

So they come down with their verdict and then the Dons will fight the verdict in court

end of chapter 1. Chapter 2 begins

[ossie85]

So they come down with their verdict and then the Dons will fight the verdict in court

end of chapter 1. Chapter 2 begins

The Dons won't fight it in court, I think they are tired of it. Individual players are harder to judge...

Could delay it even further and the final verdict means the players are suspended during finals... just take the couple of round suspensions that is likely to happen.