Essendon ASADA update

[Scrads]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

[Scrads]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

What about the 11 other clubs that were said to be as equally "unaccountable for their supplements program" as Essendon. 11 Clubs who's documentation of their programs was as "inadequate" as Essendons.

Why aren't you putting them to the sword as well?

What happens if ASADA move on to those clubs after its done with Essendon? Will your view change? Will you be as irrevocably staunch in your condemnation?

What if its your club?

If ASADA determines that other clubs including my own put into place the same or similar practices which caused violations to the anti-doping code and conducts investigations on them and places their players on the register of findings then of course I will think the same.

[The_Captain]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

What about the 11 other clubs that were said to be as equally "unaccountable for their supplements program" as Essendon. 11 Clubs who's documentation of their programs was as "inadequate" as Essendons.

Why aren't you putting them to the sword as well?

What happens if ASADA move on to those clubs after its done with Essendon? Will your view change? Will you be as irrevocably staunch in your condemnation?

What if its your club?

Boot them out of competition!

[silloc]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

You didn't answer my question, just plainly asking you what scenario do you think is most likely to have happened with all the current evidence.

[silloc]

I'm just curious to get a non-essendon perspective of what went down.

[AFEV]

I'm just curious to get a non-essendon perspective of what went down.

The every-man's opinion is fuelled by the vitriol which has circulated through the media in the last few years.
Without meaning to dismiss peoples opinions, I just can't imagine how anybody without a specific investment in the issue could possibly maintain enough focus on the topic to keep up with what's happening. Even I haven't.

It has been so long since significant evidence arose that discussing the issue itself at this point is more or less redundant. Why not just wait for the verdict, accept whatever it may be as conclusive and move on.

[nrich102]

Another question is did Hird use any "Sports Science" back in his playing days?

What the shower kind of comment is this? Antagonistic comment, this is pretty much unsubstantiated and a fairly severe and offensive accusation. If there were any evidence of it it there would've been a circus over it long ago.

Sir Humphrey Appleby could say no in less words than that.

I was just putting a question which kind of has to come to mind when a former player is injecting current players with dodgy substances.

No need to attack me over that  ::)

[Scrads]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

You didn't answer my question, just plainly asking you what scenario do you think is most likely to have happened with all the current evidence.

I'm not privy to 'current evidence' and therefore I can't make accurate judgements myself on the matter. The people who ARE privy to the evidence (ASADA) placed 34 players on its register of findings for athletes who have breached the anti-doping code. That is the biggest stick that make me form my opinion.

[AFEV]

Another question is did Hird use any "Sports Science" back in his playing days?

What the shower kind of comment is this? Antagonistic comment, this is pretty much unsubstantiated and a fairly severe and offensive accusation. If there were any evidence of it it there would've been a circus over it long ago.

Sir Humphrey Appleby could say no in less words than that.

I was just putting a question which kind of has to come to mind when a former player is injecting current players with dodgy substances.

No need to attack me over that  ::)

I think you'll find that as an AFL coach James Hird is not qualified to inject anybody with anything actually, or devise any programs for injecting anybody with anything.
Like any coach he tried to maintain current knowledge of the programs his players were participating in, whether he was aware of the legality of it is impossible to determine, it is not his responsibility to govern such programs and he is not qualified to.
The people peddling these borderline regimens didn't have prolonged involvement with the club at all, which doesn't really implicate Hird during his playing days.

Calm down, I am not attacking you, I am attacking the comment that you made (there is a distinct difference), and the comment was poorly considered to say the least.

[blue]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

What about the 11 other clubs that were said to be as equally "unaccountable for their supplements program" as Essendon. 11 Clubs who's documentation of their programs was as "inadequate" as Essendons.

Why aren't you putting them to the sword as well?

What happens if ASADA move on to those clubs after its done with Essendon? Will your view change? Will you be as irrevocably staunch in your condemnation?

What if its your club?

I will start this with a disclaimer that I'm not and expert and I don't keep up with what really going on, but surly your not suggesting that after 2 years of dealing with the Essendon saga asada are going to investigate another 11 club for the same time period at that rate we might be done with this by 2050. To even suggest that essendon is a scapegoat is just naive. I just feel sorry for the players. Jobe Watson spoke out on talking footy ( I think but could of been another footy program ) about what he took, the disgrace here has been the club for all those who think the club has already paid a high price, I think yes they have if they had of just come out with the truth from the start, not gone to court to fight the legality of the process, that is where the resentment from the average joe comes from. I just still can not get my head around there not being any documentation of what the players have been given.

[Drak]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

You didn't answer my question, just plainly asking you what scenario do you think is most likely to have happened with all the current evidence.

I'm not privy to 'current evidence' and therefore I can't make accurate judgements myself on the matter. The people who ARE privy to the evidence (ASADA) placed 34 players on its register of findings for athletes who have breached the anti-doping code. That is the biggest stick that make me form my opinion.

You can be put on the register of findings and be proven innocent though.

Thats the whole point Im trying to make.

You can't formulate a guilty verdict before the verdict is given.

Well... you can... if you want... which you have... Im just trying to tell you how our legal system "actually" works.

Peoples hatred of other clubs leaves no empathy or compassion. Opinions were set upon the moment Essendon self reported, purely based on the games age old rivalries. Which sucks, because I love every team. I love the game.

I hate that illegal drugs like Cocaine, MDMA and Meth/Speed are used by countless footballers (Ive seen it with my own eyes) but you can be caught 3 times and have your identity protected before you are vilified.

Illicit drugs kill people... and peptides are used for healing damaged tissue....

Is that not a glaring injustice?

[Drak]

No I agree Blue.

Taking the NRL route would have had this done and dusted in 5months.


But if the players believed they hadn't done anything wrong... then why would they plead guilty. So its a catch 22 really.

[Ziplock]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

You didn't answer my question, just plainly asking you what scenario do you think is most likely to have happened with all the current evidence.

I'm not privy to 'current evidence' and therefore I can't make accurate judgements myself on the matter. The people who ARE privy to the evidence (ASADA) placed 34 players on its register of findings for athletes who have breached the anti-doping code. That is the biggest stick that make me form my opinion.

You can be put on the register of findings and be proven innocent though.

Thats the whole point Im trying to make.

You can't formulate a guilty verdict before the verdict is given.

Well... you can... if you want... which you have... Im just trying to tell you how our legal system "actually" works.

Peoples hatred of other clubs leaves no empathy or compassion. Opinions were set upon the moment Essendon self reported, purely based on the games age old rivalries. Which sucks, because I love every team. I love the game.

I hate that illegal drugs like Cocaine, MDMA and Meth/Speed are used by countless footballers (Ive seen it with my own eyes) but you can be caught 3 times and have your identity protected before you are vilified.

Illicit drugs kill people... and peptides are used for healing damaged tissue....

Is that not a glaring injustice?

the use of illicit drugs kills people, but you'll probably just flower yourself up, while peptides breaks down the whole integrity of the competition. People do illicit drugs for fun, and generally, performance enhancing drugs to cheat.

[blue]

No I agree Blue.

Taking the NRL route would have had this done and dusted in 5months.


But if the players believed they hadn't done anything wrong... then why would they plead guilty. So its a catch 22 really.

The problem is that the players may of not done anything wrong but if what we believe to be true is correct they are guilty.

[Drak]

Scrads, ASADA hasn't found them guilty.

They have enough evidence to prosecute them in pursuance of a guilty charge.

I was under the impression that ASADA found that they made an anti-doping violation by placing them on the register of findings and issuing infraction notices.

I'm just saying that's enough for me to personally believe that the players and club did the wrong thing, regardless of whether the AFL anti-doping tribunal decides whether they will have a punishment to serve or not.

So, you believe the players were told that you're going to be taking thymosin beta-4, and just to keep it on the hush.

edit: and that ASADA know this but can only prove it circumstantially

Unfortunately the rules are the you have commited a violation if the banned substances find a way into your system, regardless of whether you thought it was the right thing or not. And there is very good reason for this rule.

You didn't answer my question, just plainly asking you what scenario do you think is most likely to have happened with all the current evidence.

I'm not privy to 'current evidence' and therefore I can't make accurate judgements myself on the matter. The people who ARE privy to the evidence (ASADA) placed 34 players on its register of findings for athletes who have breached the anti-doping code. That is the biggest stick that make me form my opinion.

You can be put on the register of findings and be proven innocent though.

Thats the whole point Im trying to make.

You can't formulate a guilty verdict before the verdict is given.

Well... you can... if you want... which you have... Im just trying to tell you how our legal system "actually" works.

Peoples hatred of other clubs leaves no empathy or compassion. Opinions were set upon the moment Essendon self reported, purely based on the games age old rivalries. Which sucks, because I love every team. I love the game.

I hate that illegal drugs like Cocaine, MDMA and Meth/Speed are used by countless footballers (Ive seen it with my own eyes) but you can be caught 3 times and have your identity protected before you are vilified.

Illicit drugs kill people... and peptides are used for healing damaged tissue....

Is that not a glaring injustice?

the use of illicit drugs kills people, but you'll probably just flower yourself up, while peptides breaks down the whole integrity of the competition. People do illicit drugs for fun, and generally, performance enhancing drugs to cheat.

If you think its ok for kids role models to be smashing lines of coke every weekend, then thats your business. I think its hypocritical.

Legal forms of Thymosin are used for damaged tissue rehabilitation. Still are. Your definition of a performance based drug that enhanced players is wrong.

Essendon got in trouble because Beta 4 wasn't classified yet.

Im stopping here. My need to argue with uninformed opinions has expired.