Essendon ASADA update

[Mailman the 2nd]

In all seriousness now, Essendon will have nothing to hide behind now.

If they get off from this, they deserve it, but otherwise they deserve to get much more severely punished than they have been IMO.

[AaronKirk]

In all seriousness now, Essendon will have nothing to hide behind now.

If they get off from this, they deserve it, but otherwise they deserve to get much more severely punished than they have been IMO.

Sums it up well.

[Ziplock]

I remember an issue raised a while back that some of the shower they could cop might be from poor documentation of what the players were injected with. I *doubt* the players could cop it for this, but can the club? Are there possible legal ramifications from players if this is the case?

[Nige]

Tasmanian Bombers?

Tasmanian WoodChippers?

Tasmanian Devils?

Has to be Devils, or Tigers... nothing else.

Tasmanian Tigers hey Nige ;)

Oh yeah... Um, whatever works tbh. If the VFL can have Werribee and Coburg both be Tigers, why can't the AFL do it?  :P

[ossie85]

I remember an issue raised a while back that some of the shower they could cop might be from poor documentation of what the players were injected with. I *doubt* the players could cop it for this, but can the club? Are there possible legal ramifications from players if this is the case?

if players were tricked,  they were assaulted.

[DazBurg]

i still highly doubt bans will be given out
i just don't see there being enough proof
as AK said (abd damian barret on the radio) that Asada are running around to the players and the media repeatedly saying if someone comes forward we will reduce their sentence

i feel it is the same it always has been
essendon took a truckload of drugs some borderline some fine and possibly some not (is they did take beta-4 not saying they did but if they did)

so Asada need to look like after 16 months they haven't wasted everyone's time and money
so knowing Essendon took heaps of crap it is enough to assume they did something wrong say hand out the notice (as AK said they can for the show cause)....but they probably lack the evidence completely to get the 2 year bans (i could be wrong here)
but just feels that is why they want people to come forward so they can prove without doubt something went down that shouldn't have

As with the way this whole investigation has gone you'd think more would be leaked/known about said evidence
(and yes i know confidentiality but the AFL would know something and it seems in the whole investigation when the AFL found out something rumours started doing the rounds where here even the AFL has said all along "Nah no one will get an infraction")

of course i could be wrong but still just seems like all sides of the fence are clutching at straws
(essendon with the whole wrongful investigation suit - which really if they really had a problem should of been filed like last year)
and then Asada with this making it seem like they actually have done some huge research and been great little sherlock holmes and found the evidence


dunno like i said could be wrong either way i think i speak for football fans in general (so not just essendon fans)

in saying hurry the F*** up show the evidence and let's finish this
not slowing it all down on technicalities
if Asada have proof then as much as i hate ot see my beloved club and players cop it they have too if they have actual proof they took it

but if it is circumstantial
then STFU and lets get on  with bloody footy
either way
FINISH IT !!!!


Edit: lol didn't realize i rambled on so much sorry guys
if the soccer would hurry up and start i wouldn't of had so much free time :P

BTW to the fellow bombers supporters stick with the boys and cheer em on  ;)

[GCSkiwi]

Just going to chip in my $0.02 on a couple of things

I reckon what the bombers are doing is stalling, they know damn well they've been pinched and are trying to see out the season before any players get suspended - they've already been told they'll get off light because of the length of the investigation and the club's co-operation, so let's assume that means 6 month bans. If they can see out the season, then they serve 6 months in the off season which effectively means nothing - players just hit the gym, because you can't ban them from going to the gym for "their own purposes"... Skills sessions might go amiss though. And fair enough to them I guess.

Keep in mind that ASADA absolutely DO NOT need proof that players took these substances. Having actual physical evidence of a player doping makes their case a lot easier but there's a lot of technicalities in the rules, simply having banned substances is enough, if you're a tour de france cyclist who has some EPO in his trailer then you'll get banned, regardless of whether or not you actually took it. In some sports even things such as the delivery mechanism are enough, ie if you have the gear to do a blood transfusion, you could be banned, regardless of whether it had been used. If ASADA have evidence that the club had thymosin and needles that Doc Reid can't explain the need for, then they're already in a bad place. Not to mention that Watson spilled the beans when he went on On the Couch, and everyone thought that was because the club had something worked out with ASADA. I said then that was a very bad move and there was no way ASADA would just let it slide. Here we go.

I think there's a bit of naivety and misunderstanding about just how strict this kind of thing is, I used to compete in martial arts internationally and was in tested events, none of which were professional (ie all unpaid). Plenty of urine samples, and one of the guys on the team with me was a type 1 diabetic, he had to declare and get clearance for his insulin because it was an injectable, despite the fact it was one of those autoinjector pen things (I dunno what the proper name for them is). I wouldn't be surprised if anyone who needed to carry and epi pen had to do the same, though I'm unaware of anyone in that situation. If I had carried one of his insulin pens in my bag, there would have been an awful lot of questions in the very least... So I have to say I was quite amused by all the rumbling about them just being let off with a slap on the wrist, that's definitely not the way WADA rolls...

[Vinny]

My heart beats true for the red and the blue.

My heart beats true for the red and the blue.

My heart beats true for the red and the blue.

My heart beats true for the red and the blue.

My heart beats true for the red and the blue.

My heart beats true for the red and the blue.

My heart beats true for the red and the blue.

[Ziplock]

Just going to chip in my $0.02 on a couple of things

I reckon what the bombers are doing is stalling, they know damn well they've been pinched and are trying to see out the season before any players get suspended - they've already been told they'll get off light because of the length of the investigation and the club's co-operation, so let's assume that means 6 month bans. If they can see out the season, then they serve 6 months in the off season which effectively means nothing - players just hit the gym, because you can't ban them from going to the gym for "their own purposes"... Skills sessions might go amiss though. And fair enough to them I guess.

Keep in mind that ASADA absolutely DO NOT need proof that players took these substances. Having actual physical evidence of a player doping makes their case a lot easier but there's a lot of technicalities in the rules, simply having banned substances is enough, if you're a tour de france cyclist who has some EPO in his trailer then you'll get banned, regardless of whether or not you actually took it. In some sports even things such as the delivery mechanism are enough, ie if you have the gear to do a blood transfusion, you could be banned, regardless of whether it had been used. If ASADA have evidence that the club had thymosin and needles that Doc Reid can't explain the need for, then they're already in a bad place. Not to mention that Watson spilled the beans when he went on On the Couch, and everyone thought that was because the club had something worked out with ASADA. I said then that was a very bad move and there was no way ASADA would just let it slide. Here we go.

I think there's a bit of naivety and misunderstanding about just how strict this kind of thing is, I used to compete in martial arts internationally and was in tested events, none of which were professional (ie all unpaid). Plenty of urine samples, and one of the guys on the team with me was a type 1 diabetic, he had to declare and get clearance for his insulin because it was an injectable, despite the fact it was one of those autoinjector pen things (I dunno what the proper name for them is). I wouldn't be surprised if anyone who needed to carry and epi pen had to do the same, though I'm unaware of anyone in that situation. If I had carried one of his insulin pens in my bag, there would have been an awful lot of questions in the very least... So I have to say I was quite amused by all the rumbling about them just being let off with a slap on the wrist, that's definitely not the way WADA rolls...

Eh, the banned players could get together and hold their own skills session independent of the club. They'd all know a variety of drills to do- just get down to the local oval and muck around I guess.

There might even be enough of them to hold some practice games :P

[shaker]

What has happened is that someone has to be responsible for the mass injections that the Bombers put into there players , I don't think the players should be the ones to fully take the rap ASADA is saying come forward and we will lighten the penalties so it does not stuff the club up next year ( 6 month bans ) but the knobs are saying they are innocent and are going to fight it , when the captain comes out on air and says he was injected with one of the substances it does not look good and what they were injecting into there players legal or not is just is wrong  multiple substances , the coach at the time is on record with being injected with dodgy substances that were illegal to players , to say that Hird can come back and be coach is absurd he and the people under him should be banished from the game full stop for life , this is a problem the club has to take responsibility for the sake of the club and the players

[ossie85]

What has happened is that someone has to be responsible for the mass injections that the Bombers put into there players , I don't think the players should be the ones to fully take the rap ASADA is saying come forward and we will lighten the penalties so it does not stuff the club up next year ( 6 month bans ) but the knobs are saying they are innocent and are going to fight it , when the captain comes out on air and says he was injected with one of the substances it does not look good and what they were injecting into there players legal or not is just is wrong  multiple substances , the coach at the time is on record with being injected with dodgy substances that were illegal to players , to say that Hird can come back and be coach is absurd he and the people under him should be banished from the game full stop for life , this is a problem the club has to take responsibility for the sake of the club and the players

hard to disagree

[GCSkiwi]

What has happened is that someone has to be responsible for the mass injections that the Bombers put into there players , I don't think the players should be the ones to fully take the rap ASADA is saying come forward and we will lighten the penalties so it does not stuff the club up next year ( 6 month bans ) but the knobs are saying they are innocent and are going to fight it , when the captain comes out on air and says he was injected with one of the substances it does not look good and what they were injecting into there players legal or not is just is wrong  multiple substances , the coach at the time is on record with being injected with dodgy substances that were illegal to players , to say that Hird can come back and be coach is absurd he and the people under him should be banished from the game full stop for life , this is a problem the club has to take responsibility for the sake of the club and the players

I completely respect and understand the club wanting to stick up for the players as I totally believe they were duped and it's one of these unfortunate cases where the intent was not there but the act was. Ultimately in any anti doping controlled sport the athlete is ultimately responsible for what's in their system, regardless of any misleading information given to them. I think this is a flaw that seriously needs to be addressed as there is definitely a power relationship between the club and the player - the club is paying your wages, and one of the staff comes to you and says "Hey champ, have a shot of these "vitamins" and you'll be flying", I can unserstand it being very hard to say no. I'd like to think most of them questioned what it was and whether it is legal for them to take, I feel like that has to be the limit of their responsibility. But I can understand the flipside that we can't allow players off scot free just because they were given bad advice, otherwise that opens the loophole for someone to blatantly abuse performance enhancing drugs, and then if they get caught blame it all on a staff member who takes the fall. The players always have to be punished, so that they learn they need to tghink long and hard when someone wants to jab them with something... Vitamins? Can't I eat food to get those?

Hirdy is a club great so there's probably a little bit of face-saving trying to be done there but yes I was surprised they so readily agreed to have him back on, and I wonder if that stance will change... I don't know about banned for life bt certainly there should be some hard questions asked.

I think it comes back to the Ziggy report, there were systematic failings on multiple levels and there should be several heads that roll as a result.

[Donnie Brasco]

When do you think the club might take responsibility... instead of poor PR, distractions, deflections, blaming, playing the victim, delaying and attempting to fool the public.

The gibberish Little and Bomber come out with is laughable.

The club put the players (the victims) through everything and put them in this position.

[Donnie Brasco]

Ziggy report

Exactly, mate.

Their own, internal report.

[GCSkiwi]

Here's a thought - notices were issued to 34 past and present players - are there any past players who would potentially have been served notices who are no longer playing professionally? You could still be banned from club footy but I wonder if there's anyone who will cut a deal and implicate others because there's no real career pressure in it for them??

This could get interesting...