Essendon ASADA update

[T Dog]

http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Thymosin-beta4-draws-showcause-notices-ASADA/65288

[Ricochet]

From the presser atm

Little:"If we are right, and we believe we are, the Court will declare the investigation null and void."

[GCSkiwi]

From the presser atm

Little:"If we are right, and we believe we are, the Court will declare the investigation null and void."

This from the club that considered it unlikely they would get show cause notices in the first place...

This is getting out of hand really. I can understand the club being frustrated with the length of the process but how is it possibly in breach of anything? Particularly if the notices were all issued in relation to thymosin beta 4, there is no grey area on that one. Jesus dons just cop it and stop dragging this out...

[BB67th]

What I don't understand is that this court appeal is based solely on the fact that the investigation was unlawful because it was conducted as a joint investigation between the AFL and ASADA. The lawyers are hoping that on this technicality, the entire investigation will be thrown out.

While this may be against some regulation, and I admit that the whole process has been a shambles, it should not absolve Essendon of any guilt. The fact that two groups looked into the matter instead of one shouldn't change the findings they come out with.

To me it seems that there is enough evidence for the players to receive infraction notices as it stands, and they have no evidence to prove that they did not take drugs. This means that the only path they have left is to do as they are doing now and argue the entire investigation is irrelevant on a technicality.

I do feel for the players involved in this all, but to me all the evidence seems to be that there is enough evidence to provide an infraction notice. And if there is, then that is what they should receive.

[Ziplock]

What I don't understand is that this court appeal is based solely on the fact that the investigation was unlawful because it was conducted as a joint investigation between the AFL and ASADA. The lawyers are hoping that on this technicality, the entire investigation will be thrown out.

While this may be against some regulation, and I admit that the whole process has been a shambles, it should not absolve Essendon of any guilt. The fact that two groups looked into the matter instead of one shouldn't change the findings they come out with.

To me it seems that there is enough evidence for the players to receive infraction notices as it stands, and they have no evidence to prove that they did not take drugs. This means that the only path they have left is to do as they are doing now and argue the entire investigation is irrelevant on a technicality.

I do feel for the players involved in this all, but to me all the evidence seems to be that there is enough evidence to provide an infraction notice. And if there is, then that is what they should receive.

Well, the burden of proof on taking drugs is on the prosecutors isn't it? You don't need to prove your innocence, you need to have guilt proven.

Although, they really are just showerting themselves and challenging on some technicality.

haha, trying to 'protect the reputation of our players'- honestly, that's not an issue here. Very few people, unless they're unbelievably one eyed as well as being stupid, doubt the integrity of the individual players, even protecting their livelihoods is a bit of a farce- frankly if the players do get banned they have pretty reasonable grounds for a class action suit against the bombers, especially with the drugs that hadn't been cleared for use on humans.

Anyway, unless there's some stipulation that specifically says ASADA can't work in conjunction with the sporting body it's investigating, I'd say essendon's flowered.

[Mailman the 2nd]

Tasmanian Bombers?

Tasmanian WoodChippers?

Tasmanian Devils?

[kilbluff1985]

What I don't understand is that this court appeal is based solely on the fact that the investigation was unlawful because it was conducted as a joint investigation between the AFL and ASADA. The lawyers are hoping that on this technicality, the entire investigation will be thrown out.

While this may be against some regulation, and I admit that the whole process has been a shambles, it should not absolve Essendon of any guilt. The fact that two groups looked into the matter instead of one shouldn't change the findings they come out with.

To me it seems that there is enough evidence for the players to receive infraction notices as it stands, and they have no evidence to prove that they did not take drugs. This means that the only path they have left is to do as they are doing now and argue the entire investigation is irrelevant on a technicality.

I do feel for the players involved in this all, but to me all the evidence seems to be that there is enough evidence to provide an infraction notice. And if there is, then that is what they should receive.

honestly just shaking my head at this comment

[Mailman the 2nd]

Paul Little needs to get PR lessons

[Nige]

Tasmanian Bombers?

Tasmanian WoodChippers?

Tasmanian Devils?

Has to be Devils, or Tigers... nothing else.

[BB67th]

What I don't understand is that this court appeal is based solely on the fact that the investigation was unlawful because it was conducted as a joint investigation between the AFL and ASADA. The lawyers are hoping that on this technicality, the entire investigation will be thrown out.

While this may be against some regulation, and I admit that the whole process has been a shambles, it should not absolve Essendon of any guilt. The fact that two groups looked into the matter instead of one shouldn't change the findings they come out with.

To me it seems that there is enough evidence for the players to receive infraction notices as it stands, and they have no evidence to prove that they did not take drugs. This means that the only path they have left is to do as they are doing now and argue the entire investigation is irrelevant on a technicality.

I do feel for the players involved in this all, but to me all the evidence seems to be that there is enough evidence to provide an infraction notice. And if there is, then that is what they should receive.

honestly just shaking my head at this comment

I base my assumption of guilt on the fact that ASADA's report has been reviewed by a federal court judge and he has seen that there is enough evidence to give show cause notices. If you look at their rules, there doesn't need to be definitive proof that banned substances have been taken, only the intent or enough proof to assume that substances were taken.

To take this step I assume that they must have some evidence that fits this criteria.

To me it just looks like the Bomber's board is trying to "fight the good fight" for the players and make it look like they have done the right thing by arguing on this technicality. To me, it looks like the club are trying to make themselves look the victim of this whole mess, when ultimately they must be held accountable for what went on inside their club.

I do feel for the players, and based on what ASADA has said, I wonder if it might be better for them to accept the ban and take a reduced sentence (which apparentky could be as low as 6 months), and be back to normal by 2016. I know it wouldn't be that easy, and I have a feeling that this is going to stretch out for another few years yet.

[AaronKirk]

Tasmanian Bombers?

Tasmanian WoodChippers?

Tasmanian Devils?

We are, and always be, The Essendon Football Club.

[AaronKirk]

What I don't understand is that this court appeal is based solely on the fact that the investigation was unlawful because it was conducted as a joint investigation between the AFL and ASADA. The lawyers are hoping that on this technicality, the entire investigation will be thrown out.

While this may be against some regulation, and I admit that the whole process has been a shambles, it should not absolve Essendon of any guilt. The fact that two groups looked into the matter instead of one shouldn't change the findings they come out with.

To me it seems that there is enough evidence for the players to receive infraction notices as it stands, and they have no evidence to prove that they did not take drugs. This means that the only path they have left is to do as they are doing now and argue the entire investigation is irrelevant on a technicality.

I do feel for the players involved in this all, but to me all the evidence seems to be that there is enough evidence to provide an infraction notice. And if there is, then that is what they should receive.

honestly just shaking my head at this comment

I base my assumption of guilt on the fact that ASADA's report has been reviewed by a federal court judge and he has seen that there is enough evidence to give show cause notices. If you look at their rules, there doesn't need to be definitive proof that banned substances have been taken, only the intent or enough proof to assume that substances were taken.

To take this step I assume that they must have some evidence that fits this criteria.

To me it just looks like the Bomber's board is trying to "fight the good fight" for the players and make it look like they have done the right thing by arguing on this technicality. To me, it looks like the club are trying to make themselves look the victim of this whole mess, when ultimately they must be held accountable for what went on inside their club.

I do feel for the players, and based on what ASADA has said, I wonder if it might be better for them to accept the ban and take a reduced sentence (which apparentky could be as low as 6 months), and be back to normal by 2016. I know it wouldn't be that easy, and I have a feeling that this is going to stretch out for another few years yet.

AFL issues infraction notices, not ASADA.

ASADA have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Essendon took illegal drugs for infraction notices to be issued.

Then the AFL need to then either issue infraction notices or not.

The AFL just want this to go away, they IMO would like Essendon's challenge to the courts to get up so this all goes away.

What ASADA is pushing for is for the players to co-operate and dob in other players to get 6 month bans, which would be served as far as I know during the 2014-15 off season so they can play Round One 2015.

BTW James Hird has launched legal action against the CEO of ASADA in the Federal Court, the first hearing will be on 27/6/14.

[Mailman the 2nd]

Tasmanian Bombers?

Tasmanian WoodChippers?

Tasmanian Devils?

Has to be Devils, or Tigers... nothing else.

Tasmanian Tigers hey Nige ;)

[BB67th]

What I don't understand is that this court appeal is based solely on the fact that the investigation was unlawful because it was conducted as a joint investigation between the AFL and ASADA. The lawyers are hoping that on this technicality, the entire investigation will be thrown out.

While this may be against some regulation, and I admit that the whole process has been a shambles, it should not absolve Essendon of any guilt. The fact that two groups looked into the matter instead of one shouldn't change the findings they come out with.

To me it seems that there is enough evidence for the players to receive infraction notices as it stands, and they have no evidence to prove that they did not take drugs. This means that the only path they have left is to do as they are doing now and argue the entire investigation is irrelevant on a technicality.

I do feel for the players involved in this all, but to me all the evidence seems to be that there is enough evidence to provide an infraction notice. And if there is, then that is what they should receive.

honestly just shaking my head at this comment

I base my assumption of guilt on the fact that ASADA's report has been reviewed by a federal court judge and he has seen that there is enough evidence to give show cause notices. If you look at their rules, there doesn't need to be definitive proof that banned substances have been taken, only the intent or enough proof to assume that substances were taken.

To take this step I assume that they must have some evidence that fits this criteria.

To me it just looks like the Bomber's board is trying to "fight the good fight" for the players and make it look like they have done the right thing by arguing on this technicality. To me, it looks like the club are trying to make themselves look the victim of this whole mess, when ultimately they must be held accountable for what went on inside their club.

I do feel for the players, and based on what ASADA has said, I wonder if it might be better for them to accept the ban and take a reduced sentence (which apparentky could be as low as 6 months), and be back to normal by 2016. I know it wouldn't be that easy, and I have a feeling that this is going to stretch out for another few years yet.

AFL issues infraction notices, not ASADA.

ASADA have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Essendon took illegal drugs for infraction notices to be issued.

Then the AFL need to then either issue infraction notices or not.

The AFL just want this to go away, they IMO would like Essendon's challenge to the courts to get up so this all goes away.

What ASADA is pushing for is for the players to co-operate and dob in other players to get 6 month bans, which would be served as far as I know during the 2014-15 off season so they can play Round One 2015.

BTW James Hird has launched legal action against the CEO of ASADA in the Federal Court, the first hearing will be on 27/6/14.

ASADA don't need to prove beyond reasonable doubt though. They only have to prove the intent or prove that it was likely they took banned substances, which I assume they have seeing as they have handed out show cause notices.

[AaronKirk]

What I don't understand is that this court appeal is based solely on the fact that the investigation was unlawful because it was conducted as a joint investigation between the AFL and ASADA. The lawyers are hoping that on this technicality, the entire investigation will be thrown out.

While this may be against some regulation, and I admit that the whole process has been a shambles, it should not absolve Essendon of any guilt. The fact that two groups looked into the matter instead of one shouldn't change the findings they come out with.

To me it seems that there is enough evidence for the players to receive infraction notices as it stands, and they have no evidence to prove that they did not take drugs. This means that the only path they have left is to do as they are doing now and argue the entire investigation is irrelevant on a technicality.

I do feel for the players involved in this all, but to me all the evidence seems to be that there is enough evidence to provide an infraction notice. And if there is, then that is what they should receive.

honestly just shaking my head at this comment

I base my assumption of guilt on the fact that ASADA's report has been reviewed by a federal court judge and he has seen that there is enough evidence to give show cause notices. If you look at their rules, there doesn't need to be definitive proof that banned substances have been taken, only the intent or enough proof to assume that substances were taken.

To take this step I assume that they must have some evidence that fits this criteria.

To me it just looks like the Bomber's board is trying to "fight the good fight" for the players and make it look like they have done the right thing by arguing on this technicality. To me, it looks like the club are trying to make themselves look the victim of this whole mess, when ultimately they must be held accountable for what went on inside their club.

I do feel for the players, and based on what ASADA has said, I wonder if it might be better for them to accept the ban and take a reduced sentence (which apparentky could be as low as 6 months), and be back to normal by 2016. I know it wouldn't be that easy, and I have a feeling that this is going to stretch out for another few years yet.

AFL issues infraction notices, not ASADA.

ASADA have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Essendon took illegal drugs for infraction notices to be issued.

Then the AFL need to then either issue infraction notices or not.

The AFL just want this to go away, they IMO would like Essendon's challenge to the courts to get up so this all goes away.

What ASADA is pushing for is for the players to co-operate and dob in other players to get 6 month bans, which would be served as far as I know during the 2014-15 off season so they can play Round One 2015.

BTW James Hird has launched legal action against the CEO of ASADA in the Federal Court, the first hearing will be on 27/6/14.

ASADA don't need to prove beyond reasonable doubt though. They only have to prove the intent or prove that it was likely they took banned substances, which I assume they have seeing as they have handed out show cause notices.

That is enough to get a show clause to be issued, not an infraction notice, they need proof, usually testimony saying player x took an illegal substance. This would be the strongest way to get an infraction notice issued to players by the AFL.

That's how USADA got Lance Armstrong, they had former teammates testify that he took nandronlone during his cycling career.

If this all went to the High Court, or even further to the Court of Arbitration for Sport they would need substantial evidence to prove exactly what the players took to hold up, not just that it was likely that they took a substance.