Essendon ASADA update

[silloc]

It's been a debacle from the start, I don't expect the ending will be any different.

Reckon you may be right mate, hard to see it finish with out a final twist of madness.

Dank was an undercover Carlton employee sent to sabotage essendon

[GCSkiwi]

I may well be wrong here but im thinking by the players not responding then ASADA simply hand down the punishment. Hopefully someone will be more knowledgeable on the subject and comment.

Pretty much. A show cause notice is basically a "please explain" from the anti doping agency. It gives the athlete the chance to contest or plead their case, in this instance that's already happened really. So now the players just wan't it done with, they don't respond to the notice.

Though the bit I'm confused about is this: supposedly these notices were all issued in relation to thymosin beta 4. Bombers spent ages arguing whether the supplements they had taken were actually banned, and I assumed that was all in relation to AOD9604 - that maybe a couple had been given thymosin but the majority was AOD. If ASADA have now issued 34 notices in relation to thymosin, then that really was entirely wasted time, thymosin is cut and dry banned.

[GCSkiwi]

Think ASADA returned the Finger.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-23/asada-wont-be-rushed-

To be honest, I'm really loving that response from McDevitt. "I only wish that such interest in player welfare had been present in 2012", great call.

I'm in two minds now as I think the players were duped but also I really think this is a great time for ASADA to make an example and let Australian sport know that they're not to be messed with lightly. I don't mind fair and reasonable challenge, and it's a cornerstone of true justice that people have a right to defend themselves, but I think the bombers (club) have knowingly engaged in pointless time wasting to drag this all out. As drastically unpopular as this opinion will be, I kinda hope there's a bunch of 2 year bans handed out... I've said it before, I've competed as a tested athlete before and we were very clear that the buck stopped with us. Saad got 18months for a pre-workout, I imagine he'd feel pretty aggrieved if these guys get anything less.

[shaker]

Think ASADA returned the Finger.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-23/asada-wont-be-rushed-

To be honest, I'm really loving that response from McDevitt. "I only wish that such interest in player welfare had been present in 2012", great call.

I'm in two minds now as I think the players were duped but also I really think this is a great time for ASADA to make an example and let Australian sport know that they're not to be messed with lightly. I don't mind fair and reasonable challenge, and it's a cornerstone of true justice that people have a right to defend themselves, but I think the bombers (club) have knowingly engaged in pointless time wasting to drag this all out. As drastically unpopular as this opinion will be, I kinda hope there's a bunch of 2 year bans handed out... I've said it before, I've competed as a tested athlete before and we were very clear that the buck stopped with us. Saad got 18months for a pre-workout, I imagine he'd feel pretty aggrieved if these guys get anything less.

Doubt there will be 2 year bans that would utterly destroy EFC but do agree they seem to be doing everything they can to get ASADA offside and it won't be just Saad that will be upset every other athlete that has had to take there medicine ( no pun ) if caught

[Grazz]

I to dont think 2 year bans will handed out, more than likely reduced sentences similar to the Cronulla players will occur but it is a concern considering how Essendon have treated ASADA over the last 21 months. There should be no retribution towards the players because of the clubs actions but it is a worry. Saad pleads guilty gets 18 months so the penalties are all over the shop when it comes to what seem like similar infractions.

[GCSkiwi]

penalties are all over the shop when it comes to what seem like similar infractions.

I was extremely surprised with the Cronulla situation actually, in my experience anti doping basically goes for max penalty every time. They aren't in it to save the club, they're in it to stop doping in sport. If you end a club or two I guarantee other clubs will think a lot longer and harder about trying out cutting-edge stuff that might be borderline. Saad got a discounted 18 months because he co-operated and plead guilty, much as I think bombers getting 2 years is unlikely to happen because of the number of players involved I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it was one or two players ASADA would push for 2 years. So it's not so much that ASADA would be seeking retribution as it is that they're less likely to be lenient.

The thing the players have going for them (conjecture here) is that they were mislead about what they were given. If they knew they were getting Thymosin, 2 years, end the club, I don't care. You broke the rules, don't cry about the punishment. Saad should have checked the ingredients in his pre-workout and he didn't, bad call, 18 months. But if the bombers were told it was one thing and given something else, that's a different story...

[Ziplock]

penalties are all over the shop when it comes to what seem like similar infractions.

I was extremely surprised with the Cronulla situation actually, in my experience anti doping basically goes for max penalty every time. They aren't in it to save the club, they're in it to stop doping in sport. If you end a club or two I guarantee other clubs will think a lot longer and harder about trying out cutting-edge stuff that might be borderline. Saad got a discounted 18 months because he co-operated and plead guilty, much as I think bombers getting 2 years is unlikely to happen because of the number of players involved I'd bet dollars to donuts that if it was one or two players ASADA would push for 2 years. So it's not so much that ASADA would be seeking retribution as it is that they're less likely to be lenient.

The thing the players have going for them (conjecture here) is that they were mislead about what they were given. If they knew they were getting Thymosin, 2 years, end the club, I don't care. You broke the rules, don't cry about the punishment. Saad should have checked the ingredients in his pre-workout and he didn't, bad call, 18 months. But if the bombers were told it was one thing and given something else, that's a different story...

I think essendon could survive 2 years playing bgrade/ vfl players and being on the bottom of the ladder

I men, melbourne's survived for the past 10....


#snap

[Grazz]

Cheers Kiwi always good to read your input, certainly more knowledgeable than the average man. ;)
Like Zip i think the club will survive, it's going to cost them big in dollar terms though for the reasons below.

1) Outstanding court costs for previous court appearances, reportedly over 2 million, some suggest closer to 3 million.
2) Any fines received due to being found guilty.
3) Loss of profit due to less bums on seats for two years. (How many fans will drop off not wanting to watch the B Team play)
4) Wages owed to their 1st team list over the length of the ban (Unsure on this but i suspect players will need to still be paid)
5) AFL contracts will need to be negotiated for those that play AFL football from the B Grade list. (AFL minimum wage)
6) Potential loss of sponsorship with a guilty verdict.

This would all add up to to tens of millions, a massive set back to any club for years to come and how they navigate this i just dont know. Wether a hat is passed around to the clubs wealthiest supporters who knows but it's going to cut very deep and could take a decade to recover from if the bans are at the maximum or near it. The Cronulla case suggests it won't be as dramatic as ive outlined but just say for a second it is, then wow just wow. It will take a power of work and good fortune to ensure the club does survive but the ramifications will be felt for a very long time. Your heart just has to go out to all the supporters, if they had a vote as to wether they went down the path they did or not to, you could bet London to a brick what the result of the vote would of been, a massive "No Way Don't Do It". The real victims in this are undeniably the members and supporters followed closely by the players. So when FF members are commenting on the penalties given be well aware the majority of Essendon supporters will be hurting very badly, try not to sink the boots in to hard.  :(

[jobe#4]

the thing is-and im purely speculating here...the club wont get kicked out/banned for any period of time because:
1-they have one of the biggest supporter bases
2-3rd or 4th largest membership base
3-a showerload of prime time games that will cause trouble with 7 and Fox
4-they play games like Dream Time and Anzac day


I cant think of any off the top of my head..but there will be more reasons.....it's all about money nowadays

[Grazz]

the thing is-and im purely speculating here...the club wont get kicked out/banned for any period of time because:
1-they have one of the biggest supporter bases
2-3rd or 4th largest membership base
3-a showerload of prime time games that will cause trouble with 7 and Fox
4-they play games like Dream Time and Anzac day


I cant think of any off the top of my head..but there will be more reasons.....it's all about money nowadays

Nuh they will never get tossed from the comp, no way.

[JBs-Hawks]

Hobart Bombers?  :P

[Vinny]

Individual player suspensions are more likely, they can't ban the club as a whole. Meaning 2s guys will have to come in.

[Ziplock]

the thing is-and im purely speculating here...the club wont get kicked out/banned for any period of time because:
1-they have one of the biggest supporter bases
2-3rd or 4th largest membership base
3-a showerload of prime time games that will cause trouble with 7 and Fox
4-they play games like Dream Time and Anzac day


I cant think of any off the top of my head..but there will be more reasons.....it's all about money nowadays

Nuh they will never get tossed from the comp, no way.

they wouldn't be removed from the competition, but they'd have to play subpar players for the next 2 years, they'd get massacred.

[kilbluff1985]

something i have been wondering about

if it was say 2 year bans for the 34 would they let us have whatever draft pick we get?

you could argue it's draft tampering or would they extend the draft sanctions? :-X

[GCSkiwi]

the thing is-and im purely speculating here...the club wont get kicked out/banned for any period of time because:
1-they have one of the biggest supporter bases
2-3rd or 4th largest membership base
3-a showerload of prime time games that will cause trouble with 7 and Fox
4-they play games like Dream Time and Anzac day


I cant think of any off the top of my head..but there will be more reasons.....it's all about money nowadays

Keep in mind that ASADA is a seperate entity to the AFL, the AFL would sure care about those things but the ASADA sentiment is (and needs to be) along the lines of DILLIGAF?

Individual player suspensions are more likely, they can't ban the club as a whole. Meaning 2s guys will have to come in.

Exactly. The club in itself can't be kicked out, at least under ASADAs mandate, but the players can be banned. And I think that's unfair to the players but it is the rulebook... As others have said basically leaves you with a VFL team in the 1s, should be good  :-X

something i have been wondering about

if it was say 2 year bans for the 34 would they let us have whatever draft pick we get?

you could argue it's draft tampering or would they extend the draft sanctions? :-X

Interesting thought KB. I guess I would say if they lose 34 players that's punishment in itself for the club as the membership and supporter base would for sure take a hit, they've already got huge legal costs etc. If they wooden spoon for 2 years, no reason not to give them 2 #1 picks. With that said, does that then give them an unfair advantage when their players return, in that they now have a full strength team bolstered by two #1 picks?