Carlton H&A Discussion

[Mailman the 2nd]

A lot of good players start out as ordinary players though, and you don't need a team full of elite players to win a premiership (or even do well in general)

I think the argument most have put forward is that Roos has done a lot more in half a year than Malthouse has in 2 of them. Of course Mick started from a higher base but we can only go off results.

A lot of players like Pederson, Watts, Bail etc. have gone from mediocre to decent players at Melbourne, and while guys like Rowe have come in under Mick and done well, in general you can't really say the same for Carlton

[Master Q]

A lot of good players start out as ordinary players though, and you don't need a team full of elite players to win a premiership (or even do well in general)

I think the argument most have put forward is that Roos has done a lot more in half a year than Malthouse has in 2 of them. Of course Mick started from a higher base but we can only go off results.

A lot of players like Pederson, Watts, Bail etc. have gone from mediocre to decent players at Melbourne, and while guys like Rowe have come in under Mick and done well, in general you can't really say the same for Carlton

That just means that Roos is a better coach, doesn't mean they are closer to a flag (and to be honest Watts was showing signs of improvement last year).

IMO Carlton have a better group of current players and young guys.

Guys like Menzel, Bell, Buckley and Docherty have shown more than guys like Toumpas, JKH etc

edit: And I guess the same goes for Melb, but guys like Cripps, Cachia and Graham haven't had much opportunity but are showing good signs.

[elephants]

What elite talent do they have coming through?

Just some bloke called Jesse Hogan.

Once this kid gets his body right, look out.

[Nige]

Tyson and Viney will be elite.

[Vinny]

Yeah might be bias but I reckon are list is better. Sure Roos has created great improvement but that does not mean they are suddenly way better than us. If we got over the line against Geelong, we would not be having this conversation.

Docherty, Everitt, Buckley, Menzel, Bell & Yarran are all very solid players and still young.

Graham, Cripps, Cachia also young and are gunning in twos.

Gibbs, Murphy, Simpson, Walker our top players that will be around for years to come.

Curnow is the second best tagger in the league behind Crowley.

Jamison and Henderson are very important especially Jamison. Henderson has been average as this year though not gonna lie.

Rowe and Casboult need work but are developing. Rowe is doing well, Levi can mark but his kicking is flowering terrible.

Very solid ruckline in Warnock & Kreuzer.

Another KPP would be nice though. I have probably missed a few.

Players struggling to find form are Tuohy, Henderson, Garlett and Waite but it'll come. Except for Waite, he is done. Delist or retire Jarrad.

You could say that is a very optimistic/bias view on things but that is how I see it.

[elephants]

Curnow is the second best tagger in the league behind Crowley.

Ed is good, but I reckon Caffer, Kerridge and on his day Curren have been better purely as lockdown mids.

[Nige]

A supporter from just about every club in the league could make a similar case/assessment (not having a go).

Honestly, I don't think Curnow's the second best tagger in the league.

I reckon Picken is.

[Vinny]

Sorry my bad third, forgot about Caff. Although I would say there is very little/nothing seperating 2 and 3.

Curnow over Kerridge and Curren easy man ;)

I'd go:

1.Crowley
2.Macaffer
3.Curnow

[Master Q]

Curnow is the second best tagger in the league behind Crowley.

Ed is good, but I reckon Caffer, Kerridge and on his day Curren have been better purely as lockdown mids.

Caffer has been No.1 this season, Crowley probably second based on class. Curnow a lot better than Kerridge and Curren though.

[Vinny]

A supporter from just about every club in the league could make a similar case/assessment (not having a go).

Yeah I know man, of course. Just giving my view on things. :)

[Master Q]

A supporter from just about every club in the league could make a similar case/assessment (not having a go).

Not really. Vinny's calls are realistic. We're comparing Melbourne and Carlton here. When at there best we are a top 8 side, and that we are far ahead of Melbourne, I think that is a fair call.

[GoLions]

A supporter from just about every club in the league could make a similar case/assessment (not having a go).

Not really. Vinny's calls are realistic. We're comparing Melbourne and Carlton here. When at there best we are a top 8 side, and that we are far ahead of Melbourne, I think that is a fair call.

This discussion isn't about which team is ahead right now though. I can't see either of these teams finishing top 4 and challenging for the premiership in the next 3 years at least, so I honestly couldn't care less what Lyon and Barrett have to say on the matter

[Nige]

A supporter from just about every club in the league could make a similar case/assessment (not having a go).

Not really. Vinny's calls are realistic. We're comparing Melbourne and Carlton here. When at there best we are a top 8 side, and that we are far ahead of Melbourne, I think that is a fair call.

I was really speaking from a list analysis point of view (which kinda want Vin's was is showcasing his point).

Dave could walk in here and make a case as to why the Lions are better than both, I could make a case as to why Richmond are better, Zip could make a case as to why GWS are better. (Not saying that any of these teams are ofc)

My point was really just that the way Vinny broke things down was rather optimistic and biased (as he admitted).

Honestly though, I think both clubs are pretty even.

[Vinny]

Well Carlton > Richmond

And if Melbourne equal Carlton. (Which I disagree with.)

Carlton = Melbourne >  Richmond.

Correct Nige? :p

[Nige]

Well Carlton > Richmond

And if Melbourne equal Carlton. (Which I disagree with.)

Carlton = Melbourne >  Richmond.

Correct Nige? :p

Carlton > Richmond... based on?

Didn't we beat you in Round 2?

Both teams lost to Melbourne iirc.

If anything - Melbourne > Richmond > Carlton  ;) :P