Richmond 2014 H&A discussion

[Noz]

I dont want to start anything im just here to voice my opinion list a couple of points and leave.

The problem with Richmond which i have been saying all along:

- Most of these players peaked last year, this is showing this year as none of the players are playing better then they did last year, Nor is anyone having a breakout year where ever other club has at least one player breaking out.

- You have absolutely no depth at all in any position.

- Hardwick decided to bring in experience rather than youth in an attempt to win a flag which has blown up in his face. None of the players he has brought in with the exception of Maric has done anything. Chaplin did pretty good last year but this season he has been OK

- The fact that Foley can't even get a gig in this current team is laughable.

- For the price you paid for Hampson he barely gets a pass mark this year. 

I think thats all for now.

Richmond dont have any chance at all this week they will get embarrassed again against the Giants this week and will become the first ever team to loose to Melbourne, Giants and the Suns in the one year.

[Nige]

If Benny Griffiths gets dropped, people will be burnt.

What would it take to get Griffiths in a trade, Tigers fans?

Take Vickery instead ;)

Elton maybe. Vickery no way!!!

Roos could transform Vickery, have a little faith.  :P

[Vinny]

On present form Carlton are more likely, but neither team looks like they will improve from last years results

Yeah probably not but still haha.

Who is more likely to make finals, Carlton or Richmond? ???

Neither

Answer the question haha. Neither are likely but who is more likely?

Well I will just go mathematically then and say Carlton as they have 1 more win lol.

Trust.. ::)

Well what do you think?

It could go either way really. Depends which Tigers team show up from now, the one against Geelong or the one every other week? Same depends for the Blues. Both teams are lacking confidence and hunger like TBag said I think. We'd probably be in a better position to do it but both are unlikely but not impossible. 13 rounds is a long time to turn things around.

[Nige]

I dont want to start anything im just here to voice my opinion list a couple of points and leave.

The problem with Richmond which i have been saying all along:

- Most of these players peaked last year, this is showing this year as none of the players are playing better then they did last year, Nor is anyone having a breakout year where ever other club has at least one player breaking out.

- You have absolutely no depth at all in any position.

- Hardwick decided to bring in experience rather than youth in an attempt to win a flag which has blown up in his face. None of the players he has brought in with the exception of Maric has done anything. Chaplin did pretty good last year but this season he has been OK

- The fact that Foley can't even get a gig in this current team is laughable.

- For the price you paid for Hampson he barely gets a pass mark this year. 

I think thats all for now.

Richmond dont have any chance at all this week they will get embarrassed again against the Giants this week and will become the first ever team to loose to Melbourne, Giants and the Suns in the one year.

Righto Noz, you know I generally respect your opinion and I think you're a decent bloke, but I'd like to call you out on a few points here.

- Most of these players peaked last year, this is showing this year as none of the players are playing better then they did last year, Nor is anyone having a breakout year where ever other club has at least one player breaking out.

This I can't argue with and is true, although peaked probably isn't the right word, but the essence of the point is there.

- You have absolutely no depth at all in any position.

The term 'depth' is interesting imo. Some see depth as having a surplus of players in certain positions, others see it as having good replacements if necessary (see: Hawthorn). I think Richmond's in the middle of those definitions. We have a load of guys with ability/potential, but I'll admit that a lot of them either haven't got the chance or when they have, are yet to show it.

- Hardwick decided to bring in experience rather than youth in an attempt to win a flag which has blown up in his face. None of the players he has brought in with the exception of Maric has done anything. Chaplin did pretty good last year but this season he has been OK

This is a tough call. I'd argue that most of the 'recycled' or 'experienced' players have done better in their time with us than they have at their old clubs, but in no way am I saying they've done exceptionally well. I think guys like Maric, Houli, Chaplin and Petterd (bit controversial this one) have been considerably better as Tigers than they were previously. Some of these were specific recruitments (Maric obviously was) while others like Orren Stephenson, Matt Thomas etc were for depth, experience and back-up purposes and to be stopgap players.

- The fact that Foley can't even get a gig in this current team is laughable.

I'm a fan of Foley, but he's an interesting case. Injuries kind of cost him a little and he's been fighting his way back in to the side. Played last week and definitely wasn't out worst. However, as much as I like him, I feel his time at the club is limited as other younger mids come through like Miles, Arnot etc.

- For the price you paid for Hampson he barely gets a pass mark this year.

We gave up Pick 32, which Carlton traded for 39 and Everitt. Everitt's been decent for Carlton and the Blues picked Cameron Giles (yet to play). Hampson was a needs-based recruitment though, we need a back-up ruck for Ivan because Orren is like 31 and not gonna be around past this season or next and Vickery, Griffiths and McBean aren't rucks, and can only pinch-hit. I think Hammer has been good without being great, started the season well but has faded and I think that's only because he's not used to shouldering the ruck duties on his own with little support since Carlton thought he'd be a good forward option. So, to say he 'barely' gets a pass mark is probably a tad harsh considering we'd be even more flowered without him this season.

[Noz]

Honestly im glad to hear your side of things Nige in a respectable way.  :)

Oh yes i did forget about Houli i will say he has been quite a good player at his time in Richmond but does he belong at half back? He normally gets caught out in one on one contests i just feel he would be a lot better if he was giving the ability to play further up the ground maybe as a wingmen. Would like to hear your thoughts on the Houli case.

[Nige]

Honestly im glad to hear your side of things Nige in a respectable way.  :)

Oh yes i did forget about Houli i will say he has been quite a good player at his time in Richmond but does he belong at half back? He normally gets caught out in one on one contests i just feel he would be a lot better if he was giving the ability to play further up the ground maybe as a wingmen. Would like to hear your thoughts on the Houli case.

I like Houli in his current role, but I guess it could be interesting to see him do that. I'm assuming we're talking a bit like a Lumumba kind of role (think Heater does something like this too)?

It probably wouldn't hurt trialling him like that, but I think he does a good job in defense. 

[Vinny]

Oi Noz, wtf man your opinion sucks.

I'm right.

Richmond are the best man.

flower you Noz

what do you know man

Hate you man.

man man man

apologies I'm going mad.

[Noz]

Honestly im glad to hear your side of things Nige in a respectable way.  :)

Oh yes i did forget about Houli i will say he has been quite a good player at his time in Richmond but does he belong at half back? He normally gets caught out in one on one contests i just feel he would be a lot better if he was giving the ability to play further up the ground maybe as a wingmen. Would like to hear your thoughts on the Houli case.

I like Houli in his current role, but I guess it could be interesting to see him do that. I'm assuming we're talking a bit like a Lumumba kind of role (think Heater does something like this too)?

It probably wouldn't hurt trialling him like that, but I think he does a good job in defense.

Yeah thats exactly what im talking about moulding him into one of those running types like Lumumba or Heater will suit the team

Oi Noz, wtf man your opinion sucks.

I'm right.

Richmond are the best man.

flower you Noz

what do you know man

Hate you man.

man man man

apologies I'm going mad.

Is this the first ever post that Vin didn't reply with a laugh  :(

Im sorry Vin.  :-\

[Vinny]

Hahaha just kidding man. We're cool. ;)

[Nige]

Is this the first ever post that Vin didn't reply with a laugh  :(

Yep.  :o

I think Brandon Ellis is supposed to be playing a role like that atm, not completely sure. But yeah, wouldn't mind seeing Dimma let Houli try that out.

[quinny88]

I dont want to start anything im just here to voice my opinion list a couple of points and leave.

The problem with Richmond which i have been saying all along:

- Most of these players peaked last year, this is showing this year as none of the players are playing better then they did last year, Nor is anyone having a breakout year where ever other club has at least one player breaking out.

- You have absolutely no depth at all in any position.

- Hardwick decided to bring in experience rather than youth in an attempt to win a flag which has blown up in his face. None of the players he has brought in with the exception of Maric has done anything. Chaplin did pretty good last year but this season he has been OK

- The fact that Foley can't even get a gig in this current team is laughable.

- For the price you paid for Hampson he barely gets a pass mark this year. 

I think thats all for now.

Richmond dont have any chance at all this week they will get embarrassed again against the Giants this week and will become the first ever team to loose to Melbourne, Giants and the Suns in the one year.

Sorry, I know we have rarely seen eye to eye on anything this year so you make think im just disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing but these points are all wrong on some level or another and its obvious that you are basing them on a very distant view without knowing the clubs reasonings etc. Not having a go at you, I wouldnt expect you to know the ins and outs of Richmond just as I dont know the ins and outs of Ports but ill respond to each point anyway.

- I agree that a lot of our players had their best years last year but my theory on our improvemnt was that alot didnt. Our 3 best and most important players in Maric, Cotchin and Deledio all had significantly quieter years than the previous year so I thought they would all go to another level again. Hasnt helped that Lids and Maric have only seen 3 games between them.
The guys that had career best seasons were Conca, Ellis, Martin, Vlastuin, Rance, Chaplin, Jackson. Most of these guys are very young so I dont see it as a "peak" but just natural progression of young players. Chappy was always a reasonable defender but has gone completely backwards. The breakout player that you didnt mention is David Astbury. Has kept nearly every one of the oppositions best forwards goalless but is now probably gone for the season.

- The depth is wrong. I think we have plenty in all areas except key defenders. The problem is that we are still a young side, Richmond VFL team is in their first year but the idea of that is that we can develop them with the same game plan and structure to step straight into the seniors.

- Hardwick didnt bring in experience to win a flag at all. That is the most far off point you have made. When he started doing this was Gold Coasts first year and they devised a plan to us the trade table rather than the draft to fill positions because all of the good picks were going to GC and GWS and we were finishing middle of the table missing out all together. None of the players Richmond went after were stars and most could barely get a game at their old clubs. They had a role for them to fill and apart from this year have done it very well. Similair to Port identifying they need pace and instead of going to the draft, looking at fringe players in Polec and Matty White and having a specific role for them that has worked well.
I still back in most of our recruits, just horribly out of form. Grigg can F off though.

- Foley has had an injury interupted career. When fit has always been selected but like alot of the team is out of form and playing poorly. Did play on the weekend by the way for 14 disposals which is poor.

- Hampson wasnt recruited to be a sole ruckman but im bloody glad he's their because without we would be stuffed right now. 2nd most hitouts to advantage in the league speaks for itself. No issues their but time will tell on that one.

And the cheap shot at the end saying "were no chance to beat GWS" thats just dumb  ::) honestly wouldnt be surprised if we lost but we are still heavy favourites

[ossie85]

Having players isn't depth. Each team has 40 odd players. Having quality is depth.

Richmond do not have good depth, you only have to look at the bottom 6 players playing for the Tigers to see this

[Ricochet]

SuperFooty (AFL) ‏@superfooty  6m
More pain for @Richmond_FC with Nick Vlastuin to miss 3-5 weeks with broken finger. Fitness test for Trent Cotchin http://hsun.info/1ghBwxw

[Nige]

SuperFooty (AFL) ‏@superfooty  6m
More pain for @Richmond_FC with Nick Vlastuin to miss 3-5 weeks with broken finger. Fitness test for Trent Cotchin http://hsun.info/1ghBwxw

McBean also broke his finger in the VFL.

[Ricochet]

Fantasy Freako ‏@FantasyFreako  5m
Anthony Miles has been promoted to the senior list and one would expect him to face his former side GWS this week. #AFLFantasy #SuperCoach