Another Ruck Thread

[Fid]

Iv'e gone Mummy/Sandi

Doesn't anyone like Mumford?

[GCSkiwi]

Cox represents better value too - on paper.

I might be tempted to reconsider my dislike of Cox.

SC or personal life doc? Are we having a revelation moment here? I support you no matter what your decision, I'd still have a beer with ya ;)

[HotTiges]

Seriously considering Pyke.no competition and should avg 100 plus.smoky for this season's Minson of last season.. Probably wrong

[tor01doc]

Cox represents better value too - on paper.

I might be tempted to reconsider my dislike of Cox.

SC or personal life doc? Are we having a revelation moment here? I support you no matter what your decision, I'd still have a beer with ya ;)

Glad someone saw that - as long as it wasn't my wife.   :-[ ;D

[Nige]

Iv'e gone Mummy/Sandi

Doesn't anyone like Mumford?

I do.

I've locked him in since I first made my team. Gone with him and McEvoy... not gonna explain though, I already have in another thread.

[Bully]

I've laboured over this for many hours and I keep coming back to the same conclusion - start mid priced and work my way higher. Unless someone can definitively tell me who the top 2 rucks will be, I won't commit to anyone over the 334k, which effectively leaves 4 players to choose from.

Shaun Hampson is the one I'll start with, he's got the number 1 duties for 7 weeks at least, and he's a tap to advantage king, something which translates to Supercoach gold. I've duly noted that with the clamp down on wrestling in the ruck, athletic types like Hampson will thrive, big leap=big points IMO, and he's one of the best in the business.

Tom Hickey also looks like a reasonable investment but I'm still not sold that he's nailed down the number 1 ruck duties at St Kilda. Longer put in a top performance in St Kilda's second practice match and the sands keep shifting where these two are concerned. The fact that Hickey looks to be the better forward option of the two may also detract from his ruck time, something which equates to SC poison. I'm happy to sit on the sidelines where Hickey is concerned, but if after 2 rounds it looks like he's tearing it up then I'm fully prepared to use a remedial trade to get him in.

Billy Longer fits into the same mould as Hickey, he's a wait and see proposition and it all comes down to whether he can nail down the number 1 ruck duties. Going against him is the fact he isn't a jack of all trades, it's ruck or bust for Longer because he's pretty useless in the forward line.

HMac is another who requires more observation time. He's firstly got to compete with Simpson, and then he needs to prove that 2 years out of football hasn't dampened his appetite for the contest. His upside is huge however, and he's the one player who could feasibly start to rack up tons by the bucket load.

From a strategic point of view, it's important to allow oneself enough wriggle room to chop and change between all four players if one happens to be dominating or injury strikes. This strategy isn't necessarily about investing only in one player, it's about embracing the mid price model, something which does come with a sense of flexibility. For those considering this option, make sure you have some residual cash to facilitate easy sideways movements. In another words, if you pick Hickey, be sure to have 20k left over to sideways to Hmac & Hampson if need to be. This 20k is effectively your insurance policy against injury and sub par performance - a small price to pay compared to the cost of carrying a DPP.

[Ricochet]

Nice Bully and the exact reason I have gone Sandi, HMac (Hampson/Hickey, King)

[GCSkiwi]

I've laboured over this for many hours and I keep coming back to the same conclusion - start mid priced and work my way higher. Unless someone can definitively tell me who the top 2 rucks will be, I won't commit to anyone over the 334k, which effectively leaves 4 players to choose from.

Shaun Hampson is the one I'll start with, he's got the number 1 duties for 7 weeks at least, and he's a tap to advantage king, something which translates to Supercoach gold. I've duly noted that with the clamp down on wrestling in the ruck, athletic types like Hampson will thrive, big leap=big points IMO, and he's one of the best in the business.

Tom Hickey also looks like a reasonable investment but I'm still not sold that he's nailed down the number 1 ruck duties at St Kilda. Longer put in a top performance in St Kilda's second practice match and the sands keep shifting where these two are concerned. The fact that Hickey looks to be the better forward option of the two may also detract from his ruck time, something which equates to SC poison. I'm happy to sit on the sidelines where Hickey is concerned, but if after 2 rounds it looks like he's tearing it up then I'm fully prepared to use a remedial trade to get him in.

Billy Longer fits into the same mould as Hickey, he's a wait and see proposition and it all comes down to whether he can nail down the number 1 ruck duties. Going against him is the fact he isn't a jack of all trades, it's ruck or bust for Longer because he's pretty useless in the forward line.

HMac is another who requires more observation time. He's firstly got to compete with Simpson, and then he needs to prove that 2 years out of football hasn't dampened his appetite for the contest. His upside is huge however, and he's the one player who could feasibly start to rack up tons by the bucket load.

From a strategic point of view, it's important to allow oneself enough wriggle room to chop and change between all four players if one happens to be dominating or injury strikes. This strategy isn't necessarily about investing only in one player, it's about embracing the mid price model, something which does come with a sense of flexibility. For those considering this option, make sure you have some residual cash to facilitate easy sideways movements. In another words, if you pick Hickey, be sure to have 20k left over to sideways to Hmac & Hampson if need to be. This 20k is effectively your insurance policy against injury and sub par performance - a small price to pay compared to the cost of carrying a DPP.

Nice write up.

The only issue I have with this strategy is trades. Trades are golden, by picking Hampson and Sandi you need to be banking on probably 3 trades to get 2 top ruckmen - Unlikely they will both make enough to be straight swaps for prems so will need a downgrade as well. Then if say Hampson doesn't fire, you need another corrective trade, and your options aren't stellar (as you've identified). So it's not unreasonable to think you could be using 4+ trades to get your keeper rucks sorted. My idea is that in taking Cox I'm accepting he may not be #1 or #2 ruck by the end of the season, but I don't think he'll be too far behind, and it means less trades to sort my final rucks...

[acroyale]

Ryder or Mumford seem to be PODs. Ryder chops when the sole ruck at Essendon and Mummy's back half of last year was impressive (Pardon the pun).

Mummy at GWS is not a bad thing. Poor teams aren't a bad thing for rucks. Hitouts to advantage may be the only positive in the GWS midfield!

Ryder with less rotations will have more chances to kick goals which he regularly does, add to that 10-15 more hitouts this year he is a chance for top 3-4 ruck.

Please convince me otherwise as I am seriously considering one of these guys.

I have concerns about teams with 2 solid rucks due to the vest duties of one of them...

[tor01doc]

GCSKiwi - the extra trades you worry about having to use in rucks are partially ameliorated by getting a keeper on another line using the cash saved by getting a cheapie like Hamspon, Hickey etc to upgrade a mid priced guy elsewhere.

[Bully]

I've laboured over this for many hours and I keep coming back to the same conclusion - start mid priced and work my way higher. Unless someone can definitively tell me who the top 2 rucks will be, I won't commit to anyone over the 334k, which effectively leaves 4 players to choose from.

Shaun Hampson is the one I'll start with, he's got the number 1 duties for 7 weeks at least, and he's a tap to advantage king, something which translates to Supercoach gold. I've duly noted that with the clamp down on wrestling in the ruck, athletic types like Hampson will thrive, big leap=big points IMO, and he's one of the best in the business.

Tom Hickey also looks like a reasonable investment but I'm still not sold that he's nailed down the number 1 ruck duties at St Kilda. Longer put in a top performance in St Kilda's second practice match and the sands keep shifting where these two are concerned. The fact that Hickey looks to be the better forward option of the two may also detract from his ruck time, something which equates to SC poison. I'm happy to sit on the sidelines where Hickey is concerned, but if after 2 rounds it looks like he's tearing it up then I'm fully prepared to use a remedial trade to get him in.

Billy Longer fits into the same mould as Hickey, he's a wait and see proposition and it all comes down to whether he can nail down the number 1 ruck duties. Going against him is the fact he isn't a jack of all trades, it's ruck or bust for Longer because he's pretty useless in the forward line.

HMac is another who requires more observation time. He's firstly got to compete with Simpson, and then he needs to prove that 2 years out of football hasn't dampened his appetite for the contest. His upside is huge however, and he's the one player who could feasibly start to rack up tons by the bucket load.

From a strategic point of view, it's important to allow oneself enough wriggle room to chop and change between all four players if one happens to be dominating or injury strikes. This strategy isn't necessarily about investing only in one player, it's about embracing the mid price model, something which does come with a sense of flexibility. For those considering this option, make sure you have some residual cash to facilitate easy sideways movements. In another words, if you pick Hickey, be sure to have 20k left over to sideways to Hmac & Hampson if need to be. This 20k is effectively your insurance policy against injury and sub par performance - a small price to pay compared to the cost of carrying a DPP.

Nice write up.

The only issue I have with this strategy is trades. Trades are golden, by picking Hampson and Sandi you need to be banking on probably 3 trades to get 2 top ruckmen - Unlikely they will both make enough to be straight swaps for prems so will need a downgrade as well. Then if say Hampson doesn't fire, you need another corrective trade, and your options aren't stellar (as you've identified). So it's not unreasonable to think you could be using 4+ trades to get your keeper rucks sorted. My idea is that in taking Cox I'm accepting he may not be #1 or #2 ruck by the end of the season, but I don't think he'll be too far behind, and it means less trades to sort my final rucks...

The one thing you are forgetting is the extra 240k can be used to bring 1 or perhaps 2 premiums into your side. That effectively saves trades on other lines. For what it's worth, Cox would be my top pick if I was to go down the premo route, but again, with Naitanui in the side, Cox could find himself slipping back to a 100 average if and when Naitanui starts to fire. This in itself presents a problem, are you prepared to burn a trade if Nicnat starts to tear it up? For me everything is too uncertain to spend 570k on a ruck, only to then find myself with a player who won't be a top 2 ruckman by season's end.

[fever]

without delving too hard into it i think going sandi + a midpricer is going to prove to be a mistake.

i am starting sandi and kreuzer (who i havent seen mentioned here yet, he isnt injured or anything is he?)

[Danzac]

I've laboured over this for many hours and I keep coming back to the same conclusion - start mid priced and work my way higher. Unless someone can definitively tell me who the top 2 rucks will be, I won't commit to anyone over the 334k, which effectively leaves 4 players to choose from.

Shaun Hampson is the one I'll start with, he's got the number 1 duties for 7 weeks at least, and he's a tap to advantage king, something which translates to Supercoach gold. I've duly noted that with the clamp down on wrestling in the ruck, athletic types like Hampson will thrive, big leap=big points IMO, and he's one of the best in the business.

Tom Hickey also looks like a reasonable investment but I'm still not sold that he's nailed down the number 1 ruck duties at St Kilda. Longer put in a top performance in St Kilda's second practice match and the sands keep shifting where these two are concerned. The fact that Hickey looks to be the better forward option of the two may also detract from his ruck time, something which equates to SC poison. I'm happy to sit on the sidelines where Hickey is concerned, but if after 2 rounds it looks like he's tearing it up then I'm fully prepared to use a remedial trade to get him in.

Billy Longer fits into the same mould as Hickey, he's a wait and see proposition and it all comes down to whether he can nail down the number 1 ruck duties. Going against him is the fact he isn't a jack of all trades, it's ruck or bust for Longer because he's pretty useless in the forward line.

HMac is another who requires more observation time. He's firstly got to compete with Simpson, and then he needs to prove that 2 years out of football hasn't dampened his appetite for the contest. His upside is huge however, and he's the one player who could feasibly start to rack up tons by the bucket load.

From a strategic point of view, it's important to allow oneself enough wriggle room to chop and change between all four players if one happens to be dominating or injury strikes. This strategy isn't necessarily about investing only in one player, it's about embracing the mid price model, something which does come with a sense of flexibility. For those considering this option, make sure you have some residual cash to facilitate easy sideways movements. In another words, if you pick Hickey, be sure to have 20k left over to sideways to Hmac & Hampson if need to be. This 20k is effectively your insurance policy against injury and sub par performance - a small price to pay compared to the cost of carrying a DPP.

This is my thinking as well, but I'm leaning away from Hampson because he has a definite time limit on his job.
Hickey is the one I'm on at the moment, because all he has to do is perform and he's golden. Behind him is a 20-yo old kid in Longer, who is useless in the fwd line and was a late withdrawal against Port.
HMac is my second choice, because he's also week 2 and I don't think he'll play every game.

[HotTiges]

without delving too hard into it i think going sandi + a midpricer is going to prove to be a mistake.

i am starting sandi and kreuzer (who i havent seen mentioned here yet, he isnt injured or anything is he?)

Limited pre season I believe

[GCSkiwi]

The one thing you are forgetting is the extra 240k can be used to bring 1 or perhaps 2 premiums into your side. That effectively saves trades on other lines. For what it's worth, Cox would be my top pick if I was to go down the premo route, but again, with Naitanui in the side, Cox could find himself slipping back to a 100 average if and when Naitanui starts to fire. This in itself presents a problem, are you prepared to burn a trade if Nicnat starts to tear it up? For me everything is too uncertain to spend 570k on a ruck, only to then find myself with a player who won't be a top 2 ruckman by season's end.

GCSKiwi - the extra trades you worry about having to use in rucks are partially ameliorated by getting a keeper on another line using the cash saved by getting a cheapie like Hamspon, Hickey etc to upgrade a mid priced guy elsewhere.

Had thought about that aspect and you're both right, I'm just struggling so much with who the keepers might be that the extra cash almost doesn't seem worth it! As much risk in any other line really, difficult to pick who the top players in the backs and forwards will be and mids seem to be the realm of the viable cash cows so not sure if I would want to swap one of them out.

I've said this earlier in this thread and elsewhere I really don't get people's fear about Cox and NicNat in the same side. They can and have both scored well together. In 2012 when they last played essentially a full season together Cox averaged 112 and NicNat averaged 114. As for last year:

Here are their scores playing together last year (Cox, NicNat):
96, 102
84, 142
108, 148
91,104
132, 109
115, 114
107, 73
83, 79
70, 69
70, 78

Ricochet pointed out that during that time Cox averaged 98 compared to his season average of 107

Yep reasonable point but that also implies that the 107 to 98 point drop off was solely because of NicNat entering the team. Doesn't take into account that they both scored poorly in rounds 15,16, and 17 against Adelaide, Freo and Sydney, and that if you don't include those games Cox's average only drops from 107 to 105 when playing with NicNat...

I'm happy to admit Cox may not score as well as NicNat, and even that the gap may indeed widen from the 2 points that 2012 and 2013 both show. If NicNat starts to tear it up he'll come in for Sandi in round 10. Easy.