Top 10 Greatest NBA Players of all-time

[Windigo]

That top 5 has a distinct lack of Bird...

[Andrew3737]

I love Bird, just think the white man isn't as good as Shaq and LeBron, which is fine since those guys are ultra ridiculously gifted athletically and elite talented. Shaq could've been the greatest player ever if he added more commitment and worked harder, but he was content being the most dominate player ever.

[Windigo]

I'd wait until James' career is over before putting him ahead of Bird.

Even in Bird's last year in the league (played only 45 games) but averaged 20, 9 & 6 with a PER of 21.

Just wanna see how LBJ goes when he is 35..  :P

[Andrew3737]

Apples and Oranges. LBJ is built on his athleticism dominance in the game. He is 6ft 9ish which makes him bigger than most SF's yet a lot quicker too. Which is why is/was the ball handler. He was as quick as the 6ft PG's but 3 times as strong.

Bird however was just silky smooth and technically gifted. His shot unmatched. He can do what he did at 21 @ 35. Not as efficient, but pretty much to the same effect since it doesnt require such high elite athleticism.

[Windigo]

Good point, so as LBJ gets older he might not be able to put up (as) big numbers given that his elite athleticism will surely wane when he gets to 35...

I'd expect him to adapt and become a better outside shooter and jump shot player.

[Andrew3737]

I expect him to decline heavily from 32 or so. He isn't like MJ and Kobe. He needs his athleticism. His shot is coming along so he might become a better shooter, but thats not how he is dangerous and if thats the way he goes as a player, no team will give a shower.

[Jay]

Again, Wilt was dominant in an era were it was score more than your opponent. There was no shot clock, no 3 second rule and n one cared about defense. The only defender that was any good was Russell. 11 rings and 5 MVP's, better put him number 1 then.

Shaq>Bird>Russell. I don't think we need to go into detail in how Shaq was better because it should be obvious.

Magic>Kareem, which is why you can't have him at 2. Top 5 should be clear as day.

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Shaq
LeBron

Then it starts to get sticky.

You do realise that Wilt put up almost 24ppg in games against Russell? Not a bad output against the GOAT defensive player... We all know that the rules were different in the Wilt era but you cant deny he flat out dominated his opposition. Not sure what more he could have done? Have a 150 point game? ::)

I never said Russell should be number 1, but I'm just saying that with the accolades he has received, he simply cant be out of the top 5 no matter how many offensive statistics you bring up.

Birds beats Shaq in terms of silverware and the statistics are close. I've got Bird > Shaq because it doesnt seem right to have Bird far away from Magic at all, their rivalry was a draw imo. If Shaq played better D or got another MVP award, I may have him above Bird.

The top 5 is clear as day, it just isnt yours :P how do you suppose Magic is better than Kareem? Because everything I see now says KAJ is better... Sure, Kareem passed the torch to Magic on that Laker team but he was a beast in Milwaukee too. His prime >>>> Magic's

Dont like your top 5. Shaq and LBJ too high!

[Andrew3737]

Again, the shotclock and no 3 second. They can just stand there for 5 minutes. Thats huge for an offensive man. He scored like 50ppg against every but Russell.

Bird vs Shaq, the Statistics aren't close at all. SHaq has a clear WS, PER, USG, TS and EFG lead. SHaq didn't need to play D because his offense was unstoppable.

As for Kareem vs Magic, I have 0 idea what you are looking at, everything is equal during season time, but when playoffs hit, Magic takes over. PER Kareem wins by like .4, TS Magic wins by .16, Magic wins OWS, Kareem wins DWS, WS is even. Playoffs, everything except defensive stats, Magic wins. Magic played in every playoffs for his entire career. Like I said before, its close, but Magic is the number 2 player ever. Closely followed by Kareem.

[Jay]

Again, the shotclock and no 3 second. They can just stand there for 5 minutes. Thats huge for an offensive man. He scored like 50ppg against every but Russell.

Bird vs Shaq, the Statistics aren't close at all. SHaq has a clear WS, PER, USG, TS and EFG lead. SHaq didn't need to play D because his offense was unstoppable.

As for Kareem vs Magic, I have 0 idea what you are looking at, everything is equal during season time, but when playoffs hit, Magic takes over. PER Kareem wins by like .4, TS Magic wins by .16, Magic wins OWS, Kareem wins DWS, WS is even. Playoffs, everything except defensive stats, Magic wins. Magic played in every playoffs for his entire career. Like I said before, its close, but Magic is the number 2 player ever. Closely followed by Kareem.

Just sayin' that 24ppg is more than what a lot of centres would avg vs. BR!

Bird with 2 extra MVPs outweigh's Shaq's statistical advantage imo. Regular season WS between the 2 are basically identical ::) whats crazy is Bird putting up similar rebounding numbers to Shaq while having a clear advantage in assists & also a higher ppg. Prime Bird actually scored more than Prime Shaq at a better TS%... 29.9 points at 60% TS is incredible!

Kareem has better PER and WS than Magic in regular season. Playoff PER is equal... Kareem prime has better WS and PER than prime Magic! And he also holds the silverware advantage :)

I'n using WS/48 btw

[Andrew3737]

So now we use primes? That goal post shift.

[Jay]

So now we use primes? That goal post shift.

You dont take into account when a player is at their best?

[Andrew3737]

When we use primes, we are only using certain seasons, which then put the low area of statistics out of the equation. For instance, someone who has had a long career like Shaq, where they deteriorate, but are still good enough to play on a playoff contender. If we only use prime Shaq he is >Kareem. Kareem is only considered top 5 because of how long and extensive his career was. He played 20 or so seasons, of that, about 10 or so is prime, but his prime isnt as high as Shaqs, but because his longevity at the peak of his prime was extensive, they rate him higher.

[Jay]

How on earth is prime Shaq > Kareem? Go look at the stats for both of them in their prime... Kareem's prime > anyone's other than MJ.

[Andrew3737]

Oki doki

So prime shaq is 5 years between 97-02. Prime Kareem is 11 years between 70-81. We will take PER, WS/48 TS, EFG.

Regular Season

Shaq  PER: 29.98  TS : .589   eFG: .582  WS/48 : .269

Kareem PER: 26.69   TS: .597  eFG: .557  WS/48: .250

Playoffs

Shaq  PER: 29.65  TS: .564  eFG: .556  WS/48: .226

Kareem PER: 23.32  TS: .507  eFG: .493  WS/48:  .181

People are forgetting or simply don't know, just how good and dominate Shaq was in his prime.

Also, not sure if you knew, prime Kareem only won 1 ring. Wasn't till a guy named Magic Johnson came along and gave him another 5. Kareem wasn't even in his prime at that time.

[Master Q]

This Aussie is going to be No.1 in a few years

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDZaJFd4aSk