WXV Discussion

[ossie85]

I reckon a simple tagging is the way to go if that's your goals this postional stuff is abit complex.

one i would like to see if tagging a captain. So for example im playing fyfe this week i put the hard tag on him this week and he gets 1.2 of his score or whatever and I give up my captaincy and only get 1.

Let's simplify it a bit:

Forwards/Defenders
- You can choose whether you play 5 forward and 3 defenders, 4 and 4 or 3 and 5
- If you have +1 forward over opposition defense, each forward is given +5%, while opposition defender loses -10%. Same if +1 defender over opposition attack.
- If you have +2 forward over opposition defense, each forward is given +10%, while opposition defender loses -15%. Same if +2 defenders over opposition attack.

Midfielders
- Can only play 4 midfielders, but you can nominate one midfielder to tag an opposition midfielder (tagger loses 25%, tagged loses 20%). So if Montagna tags Fyfe. Fyfe scores 140 and loses 28 points for being tagged, Montagna scores 80 and loses 20 points for tagging.

Ruck
- You can name a 'pinch-hitter' ruck with NO penalty (must by 190cm tall), but the opposition ruck gets +25%

[Holz]

I reckon a simple tagging is the way to go if that's your goals this postional stuff is abit complex.

one i would like to see if tagging a captain. So for example im playing fyfe this week i put the hard tag on him this week and he gets 1.2 of his score or whatever and I give up my captaincy and only get 1.

Let's simplify it a bit:

Forwards/Defenders
- You can choose whether you play 5 forward and 3 defenders, 4 and 4 or 3 and 5
- If you have +1 forward over opposition defense, each forward is given +5%, while opposition defender loses -10%. Same if +1 defender over opposition attack.
- If you have +2 forward over opposition defense, each forward is given +10%, while opposition defender loses -15%. Same if +2 defenders over opposition attack.

Midfielders
- Can only play 4 midfielders, but you can nominate one midfielder to tag an opposition midfielder (tagger loses 25%, tagged loses 20%). So if Montagna tags Fyfe. Fyfe scores 140 and loses 28 points for being tagged, Montagna scores 80 and loses 20 points for tagging.

Ruck
- You can name a 'pinch-hitter' ruck with NO penalty (must by 190cm tall), but the opposition ruck gets +25%

love it, even though the rules hurt a team like dublin it should give the weaker teams more of a shot when they can tag 115+ players with spuds. I reckon there should be abit more of a punsihment for tagging but its close.

[Ricochet]

Reckon a tagger should have to get within x amount of points of the player they're tagging. Like 40? and if they don't then its not an effective tag. So, like in real life, a gun player can beat the tag

[ossie85]

Reckon a tagger should have to get within x amount of points of the player they're tagging. Like 40? and if they don't then its not an effective tag. So, like in real life, a gun player can beat the tag

That's an interesting thought....

... but I think it kind of defeats the purpose. If Ablett scores 200+, that's when you'd want to tag him the most

[Holz]

Reckon a tagger should have to get within x amount of points of the player they're tagging. Like 40? and if they don't then its not an effective tag. So, like in real life, a gun player can beat the tag

That's an interesting thought....

... but I think it kind of defeats the purpose. If Ablett scores 200+, that's when you'd want to tag him the most

but sometimes a player is just way too good and cant be tagged so its kind of realisitc. If he goes 200 it means that he was just on fire and nothing would have stopped him.

[ossie85]

Not disputing that, but that's in the real world where Ablett is playing some nuff nuff and goes crazy.

Here trying to make it so that you have a legitimate fantasy battle going on between Ablett and the Tagger, playing against each other, in way that is independent on who they play in the real world

[Holz]

Not disputing that, but that's in the real world where Ablett is playing some nuff nuff and goes crazy.

Here trying to make it so that you have a legitimate fantasy battle going on between Ablett and the Tagger, playing against each other, in way that is independent on who they play in the real world

how do you account for some nuff nuff in fantasy tagging Ablett though. Lets take ryan bastinac for example. The guy averages 70 and he comes up against fyfe who averages 130. Given this is a fantasy game Basti is a spud and fyfe is a gun. If basti goes to fyfe than fyfe should just kill him and the tag wouldnt do much. But if instead I know and instead RB puts Pendlebury who is a gun on fyfe than the tag should be more effective. So i like the within limit as it means you might have to put a good player on a star instead of just your worst player.

makes it more realistic in my opinion and there is your level of strategy, the goal of a tagger is to pick your worst player who will come within say the 40 point gap. So if i think fyfe will go 140 this week i need to put a guy who i think will go 100+ on him if not the tag fails and the tagger gets hurt in scoring and the tagee scores 100%.

this is the ideal

<20 great tag: 20% reduction in both
20<X<40 average tag: 20% reduction in tagger 10% in tagee
>40 failed tag: 20% reduction in tagger 0% reduction in tagge

[ossie85]

Well, first of if a team can only play 70 averaging midfielders they aren't in great shape.

It does actually reflect real world stuff, most times a 'lesser' player tags the greats. When they don't you get craziness like the Fyfe-Dangerfield thing the other day.

I mean under your proposal, if Bastinac scores 140 and Fyfe 150, he's effectively being punished for scoring higher??

Under your proposal:

Bastinac scores 160 v Fyfe 150: Bastinac loses 32 and Fyfe loses 30: -2
Bastinac scores 140 v Fyfe 150: Bastinac loses 28 and Fyfe loses 30: +2
Bastinac Scores 120 v Fyfe 150: Bastinac loses 24 and Fyfe loses 15: -9
Bastinac Scores 100 v Fyfe 150: Bastinc loses 20 and Fyfe loses: 0: -20

That scoring systems makes tagging just not worth it

[Nige]

I reckon a simple tagging is the way to go if that's your goals this postional stuff is abit complex.

one i would like to see if tagging a captain. So for example im playing fyfe this week i put the hard tag on him this week and he gets 1.2 of his score or whatever and I give up my captaincy and only get 1.

Let's simplify it a bit:

Forwards/Defenders
- You can choose whether you play 5 forward and 3 defenders, 4 and 4 or 3 and 5
- If you have +1 forward over opposition defense, each forward is given +5%, while opposition defender loses -10%. Same if +1 defender over opposition attack.
- If you have +2 forward over opposition defense, each forward is given +10%, while opposition defender loses -15%. Same if +2 defenders over opposition attack.

Midfielders
- Can only play 4 midfielders, but you can nominate one midfielder to tag an opposition midfielder (tagger loses 25%, tagged loses 20%). So if Montagna tags Fyfe. Fyfe scores 140 and loses 28 points for being tagged, Montagna scores 80 and loses 20 points for tagging.

Ruck
- You can name a 'pinch-hitter' ruck with NO penalty (must by 190cm tall), but the opposition ruck gets +25%

Even though I'm generally against this kind of stuff, this is simple enough to work.

For the def/fwd thing, if it's the current Cairo defense (B.Smith, McGovern, N.Smith, Rowe) vs Dublin fwds (Dusty, Buddy, Roughy, Gunston, Walters), I think it's fair to say that the quality between them is massive, if Dulin's fwds who are basically all 'premos' get an added bonus against our defenders as they are who aren't that great for whatever reason, is that fair and does it undo some of the equality we've tried so hard to create?

For the mid thing, would the captain (or co-captains) be exempt from being tagged? If not, it seems like teams would basically make sure the captain gets tagged every week.

[Holz]

Well, first of if a team can only play 70 averaging midfielders they aren't in great shape.

It does actually reflect real world stuff, most times a 'lesser' player tags the greats. When they don't you get craziness like the Fyfe-Dangerfield thing the other day.

I mean under your proposal, if Bastinac scores 140 and Fyfe 150, he's effectively being punished for scoring higher??

Under your proposal:

Bastinac scores 160 v Fyfe 150: Bastinac loses 32 and Fyfe loses 30: -2
Bastinac scores 140 v Fyfe 150: Bastinac loses 28 and Fyfe loses 30: +2
Bastinac Scores 120 v Fyfe 150: Bastinac loses 24 and Fyfe loses 15: -9
Bastinac Scores 100 v Fyfe 150: Bastinc loses 20 and Fyfe loses: 0: -20

That scoring systems makes tagging just not worth it

Maybe if you beat your opponent no penalties for either


You can change the numbers around.

Now days alot of teams are putting stars on stars thiugh.

The difference is in afl there are legit average fantasy players who are good taggers, think Crowley. So being q tagger usually results in low fantasy.

However if not having these rules poor fantasy players become the best taggers.

[Ricochet]

For the mid thing, would the captain (or co-captains) be exempt from being tagged? If not, it seems like teams would basically make sure the captain gets tagged every week.

Yeh this brings up an interesting point. At what point are teams locked in. Say we can't tag captains, we declare we're tagging a star and at the last minute the team with the star getting the tag decides to make him C or CC. 

[ossie85]

For the def/fwd thing, if it's the current Cairo defense (B.Smith, McGovern, N.Smith, Rowe) vs Dublin fwds (Dusty, Buddy, Roughy, Gunston, Walters), I think it's fair to say that the quality between them is massive, if Dulin's fwds who are basically all 'premos' get an added bonus against our defenders as they are who aren't that great for whatever reason, is that fair and does it undo some of the equality we've tried so hard to create?

Well, it isn't about creating equality, it is about creating strategy. In this example I believe you have a lot defenders? So you could match it with 5 defenders.

For the mid thing, would the captain (or co-captains) be exempt from being tagged? If not, it seems like teams would basically make sure the captain gets tagged every week.

I'd apply bonus/penalties independent of each other. So Pendblebury is Captain and Tagged. He scores 120 + 120 captain bonus - Tagging penalty (So he will get the 120 Captain bonus no matter what).

You can change the numbers around.

Now days alot of teams are putting stars on stars thiugh.

The difference is in afl there are legit average fantasy players who are good taggers, think Crowley. So being q tagger usually results in low fantasy.

However if not having these rules poor fantasy players become the best taggers.

Not against a different method, just the one you proposes Holz gives you a maximum bonus of 4 points (or 0.4 points rounded), and relatively large losses (20, or even more if the starts align).

Beating your opponent would have no penalty on opponent? That doesn't make much sense sorry Holz

Yes, the 15th best player in your team would be the best tagger. But if your 15th best player can only manage 60-70 a week that is actually a decent representative of a tagger. Plus there's no advantage (in fact a big disadvantage) for deliberately selecting a low scoring player. I.e. you wouldn't select a 50 averaging player over a 80 averaging player just to be a tagger.

[upthemaidens]

If both teams used a tag (and why wouldn't they) doesn't that effectively nullify each other out?

[ossie85]

If both teams used a tag (and why wouldn't they) doesn't that effectively nullify each other out?

tagging can easily backfire, its not a given people would

[ossie85]

How about this - you can 'break' a tag if they start on the bench. So its a risk which player you choose to tag