WXV Discussion

[ossie85]

@Purple 77... haven't worked out the compensation picks yet, happy for suggestions

@HB... we'd still have trade periods... Probably the regular trade period 1 happening concurrently with Poaching... again, happy for other ideas.













Noting that the prices will change after the rest of the season, but top 5 at each club currently:

Kreuzer   Matthew   Beijing Thunder   $469,000
Taylor   Harry   Beijing Thunder   $433,000
Wines   Oliver   Beijing Thunder   $428,000
Rosa   Matt   Beijing Thunder   $415,000
Stanley   Danny   Beijing Thunder   $394,000


Fyfe   Nat   Berlin Brewers   $539,000
Steven   Jack   Berlin Brewers   $484,000
Wells   Daniel   Berlin Brewers   $473,000
Zorko   Dayne   Berlin Brewers   $454,000
Hibberd   Michael   Berlin Brewers   $448,000


Swan   Dane   Buenos Aires Armadillos   $564,000
Boyd   Matthew   Buenos Aires Armadillos   $546,000
Johnson   Steve   Buenos Aires Armadillos   $538,000
Cox   Dean   Buenos Aires Armadillos   $534,000
Barlow   Michael   Buenos Aires Armadillos   $518,000



Beams   Dayne   Cairo Sands   $586,000
Prestia   Dion   Cairo Sands   $477,000
Mumford   Shane   Cairo Sands   $476,000
Hanley   Pearce   Cairo Sands   $467,000
Douglas   Richard   Cairo Sands   $457,000


Kennedy   Josh P   Cape Town Cobras   $575,000
Cotchin   Trent   Cape Town Cobras   $549,000
O'Keefe   Ryan   Cape Town Cobras   $496,000
Cooney   Adam   Cape Town Cobras   $442,000
Thomas   Dale   Cape Town Cobras   $425,000

^ this is a good example how ROK might be a tad overpriced...


Selwood   Joel   Dublin Destroyers   $586,000
Watson   Jobe   Dublin Destroyers   $579,000
Rockliff   Tom   Dublin Destroyers   $542,000
Dal Santo   Nick   Dublin Destroyers   $514,000
Goldstein   Todd   Dublin Destroyers   $512,000



McVeigh   Jarrad   London Royals   $520,000
Stanton   Brent   London Royals   $489,000
Hannebery   Dan   London Royals   $458,000
Hudson   Ben   London Royals   $453,000
Reilly   Brent   London Royals   $436,000


^ and Hudson....

Sidebottom   Steele   Mexico City Suns   $526,000
Goddard   Brendon   Mexico City Suns   $523,000
Maric   Ivan   Mexico City Suns   $520,000
Bartel   Jimmy   Mexico City Suns   $517,000
Sandilands   Aaron   Mexico City Suns   $510,000



Griffen   Ryan   Moscow Spetsnaz   $528,000
Ward   Callan   Moscow Spetsnaz   $528,000
Naitanui   Nic   Moscow Spetsnaz   $502,000
Martin   Dustin   Moscow Spetsnaz   $486,000
Shaw   Heath   Moscow Spetsnaz   $479,000



Montagna   Leigh   New Delhi Tigers   $519,000
Duncan   Mitch   New Delhi Tigers   $424,000
Greene   Toby   New Delhi Tigers   $422,000
Gaff   Andrew   New Delhi Tigers   $409,000
Bastinac   Ryan   New Delhi Tigers   $402,000


Liberatore   Tom   New York Revolution   $507,000
Bennell   Harley   New York Revolution   $487,000
Treloar   Adam   New York Revolution   $458,000
Armitage   David   New York Revolution   $445,000
Stokes   Matthew   New York Revolution   $433,000



Redden   Jack   Pacific Islanders   $505,000
Leuenberger   Matthew   Pacific Islanders   $442,000
Gibson   Sam   Pacific Islanders   $407,000
Blair   Jarryd   Pacific Islanders   $402,000
Howe   Jeremy   Pacific Islanders   $391,000



Priddis   Matt   PNL Reindeers   $532,000
Jones   Nathan   PNL Reindeers   $485,000
Simpson   Kade   PNL Reindeers   $474,000
Rioli   Cyril   PNL Reindeers   $473,000
Griffin   Jonathon   PNL Reindeers   $456,000



Ablett   Gary jnr   Sao Paulo Pumas   $672,000
Sloane   Rory   Sao Paulo Pumas   $537,000
Minson   Will   Sao Paulo Pumas   $515,000
Jacobs   Sam   Sao Paulo Pumas   $489,000
Roughead   Jarryd   Sao Paulo Pumas   $480,000



Dangerfield   Patrick   Seoul Magpies   $561,000
Gibbs   Bryce   Seoul Magpies   $492,000
McEvoy   Ben   Seoul Magpies   $482,000
Swallow   David   Seoul Magpies   $443,000
LeCras   Mark   Seoul Magpies   $424,000



Jack   Kieran   Tokyo Samurai   $538,000
Mitchell   Sam   Tokyo Samurai   $524,000
Selwood   Scott   Tokyo Samurai   $492,000
Judd   Chris   Tokyo Samurai   $490,000
Shuey   Luke   Tokyo Samurai   $488,000



Pendlebury   Scott   Toronto Wolves   $628,000
Swallow   Andrew   Toronto Wolves   $516,000
Ryder   Paddy   Toronto Wolves   $488,000
Johnson   Michael   Toronto Wolves   $451,000
Cunnington   Ben   Toronto Wolves   $443,000



Deledio   Brett   Wellington Warriors   $535,000
Murphy   Marc   Wellington Warriors   $519,000
Hayes   Lenny   Wellington Warriors   $495,000
McIntosh   Hamish   Wellington Warriors   $457,000
Walker   Taylor   Wellington Warriors   $435,000

[Holz]

I feel the game is fine it's not the system that creates gaps its the coaches. I understand that most of the issues have been caused by coaches who have since left but the poaching really hurts coaches who have built there way up. I can only speak for myself but I built my team up from probably a worst state than any current team and would be pretty annoyed to have my players poached. This poaching issue would always been on my mind when trading instead of making as solid a squad as possible. Just like the cap pushes teams to go shallow and have little cover or overvalued players who have been injured.

I'm working on rebalncing in the euro and my prefered method is to mentor/give advice to the weaker teams and to make sure they have quality assistants. You can build with the current system has been done before and can be done again. Artificial constraints to me take away a lot of the freedom and cause possible explotiations and overvaluing of certain players.

Make sure the bottom teams have a trading strategy and drafting strategy. The way teams are ruined are having no direction or ridiculous strategies like going super super young and trading away players who are under 26 because they are too old.

On that note if anyone  wants some advice on building up a club I'm happy to help. These weak clubs have decent lists and with the right moves can move up the ladder with good direction.

[DazBurg]

What would the salary cap roughly be Oss? Out of interest.

Also, I wouldn't mind a sort of two (or three) year 'contract' for rookies making them unavailable via free agency for the first few years. Just because rookies can often have terrible averages over the first few seasons due to being the sub or having limited opportunities etc.

For example, say in the unlikely scenario that PNL ended up with the #1 pick last year (unlikely because what the hell would Daz actually gladly offer :P) and selected Tom Boyd, his price at the end of this season based on his average of 35 would be $175 000. Now we all know how much potential Boyd actually has, so say if PNL was teetering on the edge of the salary cap and couldn't afford that extra $225 000 that Beijing offered ($400 000, a pretty reasonable amount for a team that's keen on high end young talent), PNL would lose a potential star before they've really been able to assess his value or get anything of significance back.

tl;dr - I would like rookies to be unpoachable for their first two seasons at a club as they're too easy to pry away due to their low prices.

Sorry if that made little/no sense. I'm quite hungover.

got a mention :D

i see my reputation proceeds  me :P...lol

[MajorLazer]

I think that there would also need to be a maximum amount of players that teams can poach, so there is still a focus on trading during this period. I can see teams pretty much scrapping the idea of trading because they think they can just poach enough players from other teams and still stay under the cap.

[ossie85]

I think that there would also need to be a maximum amount of players that teams can poach, so there is still a focus on trading during this period. I can see teams pretty much scrapping the idea of trading because they think they can just poach enough players from other teams and still stay under the cap.

Good point

[MajorLazer]

I think that there would also need to be a maximum amount of players that teams can poach, so there is still a focus on trading during this period. I can see teams pretty much scrapping the idea of trading because they think they can just poach enough players from other teams and still stay under the cap.

Good point

Maybe 4, like the second trading window. Though this would still go along with all teams only being allowed to lose 4? I guess, to stop teams getting decimated.

[Holz]

Basing it off averages kind of overvalues miss though. So if this went ahead I would weaken my kids and go after the best forwards and backs in the comp. Also ruck poaching could cripple certain teams. Like if someone went 1 mil for goldy no way could I match that than I have no rucks. Very interesting idea but I can see it causing a lit of problems. Plus with the rule I would have drafted and traded differently it will hurt some clubs more than others. PNL will get crippled and dillos having all old players will have few poachings as nobody will go after there players when there are guys Luke Rocky.

So hurts teams that built quality youngish lists.

[kilbluff1985]

yeah i don't like it

[elephants]

Its a very interesting concept and a cool idea but I'm probably leaning toward the Keep it Simple/If it ain't broke ideology here.

[CrowsFan]

@HB... we'd still have trade periods... Probably the regular trade period 1 happening concurrently with Poaching... again, happy for other ideas.

Ok. In my opinion if it were to go ahead, I would think the poaching should be done before the regular trading period, ie a week (or two) for poaching then the trade period starts after. My reasoning for that would be that if you were one of the unlucky clubs to lose a good player you would be able to then use the trade period to try and fix up the team. Whereas if they ran at the same time someone in the last day or two could poach a player, not giving the other team enough time to find a replacement. Or what would happen if you made a trade for a player and he then got poached from you?

[JBs-Hawks]

Think poaching should be only allowed on players over 25 or similar.

Anyway I think something like this would be better put in on a new competition rather than a pre-existing one.

[Torpedo10]

Think poaching should be only allowed on players over 25 or similar.

Anyway I think something like this would be better put in on a new competition rather than a pre-existing one.

agreed.

[DazBurg]

i have to agree with Holz and HB on this one
even though PNL could potentially poach a big name mid which we really need
but i tihnk it doesn't work well for a few reasons
1. it is meant to be a franchise game with poaching players especially marquee ones "could" be flying all over the place which isn't realistic imo

2.the ruckman issue i feel it is the hardest position to have 2 ore more great options and people have worked hard to get there it isn't fair for that along with other positions to be decimated by poaching (i get that is what the max limit is for though)

3. i feel trading can fix all (i know i am hard to deal with) but we are not one of those bottom 4 clubs we believe we had most of the pieces just missing a few not needing a huge overhaul
but i find (and this is not directed at the 4 clubs but in general) there is a big big emphasis on hoarding young players and getting in young players
ofc that is great for long term success but i feel alot sacrifice short term for that long term which is what makes it more uneven
a perfect example is Holz trading JOM nearly everyone else would of been like hell no yet he got fyfe and then ofc traded him for buddy

but the point is it can be done but there needs to be a balance
but if we go down the poaching route then trading becomes even more pointless
(and if someone really wants to be a pr*ck they could threaten poaching if trade talks are not going well)
the only way it has any chance imo is if it is used to get more depth at clubs i.e
each team could name say their 18 (just like a lineup with 3 emerg) and they are not poach able (ok might be too many i know that was what 5 was for but still think that is quite a low number for the really good teams)
that means teams will not be teared apart it also stops the power of trading becoming to diminished

see Ossman i understand what your trying to do and that is even the comp up more
but i see poaching get awful messy and also diminishing the power of trading
and if going on coinciding with trading could become rally confusing imo


edit: i hope this makes sense....lol

[Justin Bieber]

PNL Reindeers   $14,435,000

- A cap of $13,500,000

So screwed :P.

Basing it off averages kind of overvalues miss though. So if this went ahead I would weaken my kids and go after the best forwards and backs in the comp. Also ruck poaching could cripple certain teams. Like if someone went 1 mil for goldy no way could I match that than I have no rucks. Very interesting idea but I can see it causing a lit of problems. Plus with the rule I would have drafted and traded differently it will hurt some clubs more than others. PNL will get crippled and dillos having all old players will have few poachings as nobody will go after there players when there are guys Luke Rocky.

So hurts teams that built quality youngish lists.

Seeing as most of our guys won't have insane salaries but we have plenty of depth, can certainly see quite a few players getting poached as we're over the cap, therefore going to lose players :(.

@HB... we'd still have trade periods... Probably the regular trade period 1 happening concurrently with Poaching... again, happy for other ideas.

Ok. In my opinion if it were to go ahead, I would think the poaching should be done before the regular trading period, ie a week (or two) for poaching then the trade period starts after. My reasoning for that would be that if you were one of the unlucky clubs to lose a good player you would be able to then use the trade period to try and fix up the team. Whereas if they ran at the same time someone in the last day or two could poach a player, not giving the other team enough time to find a replacement. Or what would happen if you made a trade for a player and he then got poached from you?

Agree with HB, if it does go through, has to be before trading period to allow teams who got poached at having a possibility to fill the void that was left. Just say a team came in and sniped Lobbe from us somehow, PNL wouldn't even have a ruckman (unless Griffin somehow remains on field).

Now for my opinion... It's an interesting concept indeed and could work for a salary cap over the point cap. However it may get a bit more confusing for you Oss keeping up all the prices, especially when it does get changed via bidding and stuff. However, I think if we do franchise 5 players, it would be too little as can still hurt teams, so if it was say 10-15 players, would be better in order to keep teams together.

Given, I still prefer trading system with a strict passing criteria. PNL have alot of depth and we actually don't mind trading off depth players. Daz is stingy, but I've tried to help other teams over at Euros with Iceland who are similar to PNL with the depth (and also lack mids ::) ). And usually aimed at lower teams who need some positions filled up forward or back, PNL could legit field a Reserves XV some weeks, so if people need players playing, we can unload points :D. So that also helps when teams are also willing to help out the lower teams trading out some players in order to raise their competitiveness. Not when teams get greedy, then that causes imbalance in the lead. That and teams going super young....

[Purple 77]

Starting to think I might change my vote on poaching.

An aside, I also think trade passing should be stricter. I still can't believe (although it was reversed in the end courtesy of the good people at PNL) that Liberatore deal to PNL got passed last trading period, and that an incredible 13 (!!!!) coaches (+ more co-coaches) let it through.

Yeah, this one:

PNL trade: Justin Westhoff, Luke Ball and Pick 6
New York trade: Tom Liberatore, Trent McKenzie and Pick 25

I think the fact that that trade got through means the system isn't strict enough.