Sounds obvious but Tackling has to improve big time to make top 8 in 2014

[Noz]

Zip the brownlow isn't flawed for anyone thats not a midfield you name me one consistent forward or defender that deserves to be placed ahead of those guys. If a midfielder isn't the clubs best player then they are going to have a pretty tough time.

[Ziplock]

Thing is, the brownlow isn't necessarily an award that favours consistency either. You can play like absolute shower in half your games, but if you dominate in the other half you can still win the award.

If you don't have good key forwards, you're going to have trouble scoring. If you don't have good key backs, you're going to get crushed by said key forwards. MThe midfield is crucial for the ball transition from either end of the field, but that doesn't necessarily mean midfielders are inherently more important than other players.

Someone like roughead for instance, coleman medallist and absolutely crucial to his team... deserved to be placed higher than 26th- and he was the first ranked non-midfielder, unless you count dustin martin. Or like franklin in 2008, kicked more than 3 goals on 15 occassions, kicked 100+ for the year, but didn't even come top 5.

Or like this year, look at some of the defenders, Enright had a good year, all asutralian, but came 108th in the brownlow, or M Johnson, 93rd.

Or cameron, who came 68th, despite coming second in the coleman while playing for last placed team. And Cameron was remarkably consistent, he was only held goaless once this year in round 22, he kicked multiple goals on 17 occasions.

Just because midfielders are more 'consistent' doesn't mean they're better... it just means that it's easier for midfielders to be more consistent, and subsequently if anything, consistent players in other positions should be rewarded more.

[Mailman the 2nd]

The umpires first concern is actually officiating the game, not making judgement of the players.

That's why when they put the name down its always the players who stick in their head i.e. almost every time the player with the most time with the ball.

[Spanner221]

If a midfielder isn't the clubs best player then they are going to have a pretty tough time.

Nick Riewoldt?

[TeeJay]

Just to clear things up.. The umpires do look at the stats when making their Brownlow votes. They are given some time to go over the stats and have discussion on the game before doing their votes.

Not getting Wingard was a mistake by Gws but apart from that.. Let's see.
Trengove has been very average, Martin taken after him has been 10 times better.
Toumpas was taken at pick 4 and showed very little and when you consider they could have got Wines.. I know who I'd rather.
Grundy went at pick 18 so not just Victorians didn't get him, no one did. Even a SA club didn't get him.. They must be bias against their own state ::)
And Mayes was taken at pick 8 after Wines. Do you think Port regret their pick do you? Port again electing to go with a Victorian over a South Australian.. How bias of them.

[Ziplock]

If a midfielder isn't the clubs best player then they are going to have a pretty tough time.

Nick Riewoldt?

Should have clarified Riewoldt in what year... because this year, the saints were having a pretty tough time :P

[Noz]

If a midfielder isn't the clubs best player then they are going to have a pretty tough time.

Nick Riewoldt?

I forgot because the Saints did so well this year.

[Ziplock]

If a midfielder isn't the clubs best player then they are going to have a pretty tough time.

Nick Riewoldt?

I forgot because the Saints did so well this year.

What about 2009 when the saints were minor premiers and riewoldt won their B&F?

Or 2006 when they came 6th and riewoldt also won it? Or 2004 when they came 3rd?

[Noz]

If a midfielder isn't the clubs best player then they are going to have a pretty tough time.

Nick Riewoldt?

I forgot because the Saints did so well this year.

What about 2009 when the saints were minor premiers and riewoldt won their B&F?

Or 2006 when they came 6th and riewoldt also won it? Or 2004 when they came 3rd?

Riewoldt is something different though he is one of the best players in the comp when he is on song and in his prime was the best forward in the game. He would of been the best player at half a dozen AFL clubs.

[Ziplock]

my point is that you can be the best player at a club, which can be successful, and not be a midfielder.

What about someone like Glass? One of the best key defenders in his prime, won WCE B&F in 2007 and 2011, both of which they finished top 4.


There are plenty of examples where a clubs best player has been a non-mid and they've been successful :P

[meow meow]

Big Lance was pretty good in 2008 when the Hawks claimed the flag.

[CrowsFan]

If a midfielder isn't the clubs best player then they are going to have a pretty tough time.

Nick Riewoldt?

I forgot because the Saints did so well this year.

What about 2009 when the saints were minor premiers and riewoldt won their B&F?

Or 2006 when they came 6th and riewoldt also won it? Or 2004 when they came 3rd?

Riewoldt is something different though he is one of the best players in the comp when he is on song and in his prime was the best forward in the game. He would of been the best player at half a dozen AFL clubs.

So since this argument was about mids getting the votes in the brownlow lets look at how Riewoldt fared back when he was in the peak of his powers...

2009 (Saints B&F + AA) = 15 votes = 9th place, 15 votes behind winner, NDS and Hayes both more votes
2008 (AA) = 12 votes = 19th place, 12 votes behind winner, Hayes more votes
2007 (Saints B&F) = 14 votes = 19th place, 15 votes behind winner, NDS more votes
2006 (Saints B&F + AA) = 8 votes = 41st place, 18 votes behind winner NDS and Harvey more votes
2004 (Saints B&F + AA) = 17 votes = 8th place, 13 votes behind winner, most votes for Saints

Yep definitely not a midfielders award...

[tbagrocks]

Midfielders dime a dozen, Carey, Brown, Tredrea, Lloyd, Hall, Buddy, Roughy they don't grow on tree's, what do they all have in common?

Seems almost like you need a big gun forward to be successful, even the Cats had SJ and Hawkins, Collingwood with Cloke despite their midfield onslaught

[Noz]

Geelong and Sydney, West Coast all won their premierships without a damaging key forward week in week out they won it because of their midfield.

A key defender can only stop goals and you don't win a premiership just by defending you need to attack.

[Ziplock]

Geelong and Sydney, West Coast all won their premierships without a damaging key forward week in week out they won it because of their midfield.

A key defender can only stop goals and you don't win a premiership just by defending you need to attack.

You dont have someone to hold down a clone/ franklin and you're going to get flowered.