A few questions

[Ziplock]

Basically, as some of you may or may not know, I do gender studies as my elective at university, and I'm planning on writing my major essay this semester on women in Australian Rules Football.

So basically, I have a few quick questions to as you all, and I would really appreciate it if you could all give answers, especially if you feel strongly about the topic in eitherway. I have to do this on a publicly accessible domain, since I haven't gotten ethical clearance for this (purely bureaucratic), which means I need any responses to it on the forum, and not in PM's.

Please don't attack people for their views on these topics, whatever they are, friendly debate/ discussion is fine though. I personally won't be participating in any further discussion, except to thank people for their views, as well as asking people to clarify or expand on opinions(if necessary). If I need to use a specific quote from here, I'll PM anyone involved.

Thanks anyone who responds, answers to any of the questions is appreciated if you don't feel like answering them all :)

Remember, safe environment people, don't attack anyone. The most important part of this process is in people saying what they believe in.

The Questions:

1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)



2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?



3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?



4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?



5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)



6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)



7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?





8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?





9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?





I understand that's a reasonable amount of questions, and I would be really grateful to any answers to them at all. Explanations for your answers would be great as well if you're willing to offer them. This is a pretty informal process, so I might put up new questions occasionally is they come to mind.

I understand that this is a mainly male community, but I'm also pretty interested in the responses of women. If you happen to be responding to this and are a woman, can you please say so (but if you don't necessarily want people to know that you are female for what ever reason, feel free to send me a PM).

If anyone has any wives, girlfriends, sister etc. who'd be willing to answer these questions as well, that would be really appreciate too. I'd be really interested to hear answers to questions 1, 5, 6 from women (although, with 6 I'd like to hear if they'd participated in the competition ever).

Once again, thanks everyone who participates :)

[specky92]

1. I love how women are involved in my community, The thing that impresses me is the amount of opportunities out there, even in my town which isn't that big we have a team. Also what I found interesting in year 8, my school had more girls try out for football than guys, which was awesome.

2. I also am a big fan of this, I'm no umpire expert but I imagine there are certain tests and standards that have to be passed and if someone can pass them, man or women, then they should have the right to umpire AFL.

3. If Essendon were to hire a female coach I would give her a shot just like any other coach, she obviously knows her footy if she gets a job at AFL level.

4. Same opinion applies ^^

5. I don't like this scenario at all, I just feel as if I wouldn't work at all or the rules would be changed such as tackling and bumping and I think the males would feel extremely intimidated. Also if a male player got reported for hitting a female player then I think he would be under a hell of a lot more scrutiny than if he hit a male player.

6. Unfortunately I can't say that I have ever seen a game of Women's Australian Football but not due to lack of interest but lack of exposure, as I believe it does not get televised on FTA. Also I regularly watch women's soccer and cricket when it's on FTA.

7. If it was on TV, yes, however I would not go to the ground to watch it as it is 2 hours away

BTW, this sounds like an awesome elective at university.

[Ziplock]

Thanks heaps!

yeah, it's a pretty interesting subject... I do advanced science, so it's a bit left field to choose as my elective, but I've found it really interesting. It's not just one subject either, like the one I do is Men, Masculinity and Mateship, but from memory there's like another half dozen gender studies units that USYD offers, from 'Bodies and Identifies' to 'Love and Friendship'.

As I said, interesting :P

I've added on an extra 2 questions that I thought probably needed addressing. If you're happy to answer them as well, that'd be awesome :)

[Justin Bieber]

Awesome stuff Zippy, interesting topic as well! I was thinking of doing some Gender studies as an elective as well but there are so much stuff to choose from, it's hard to.

1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)

Not a huge role, don't really notice many besides a few you see on the news/footy shows (e.g. Chelsea Roffey, Caroline Wilson, Sam Lane, Christie Malthouse when she use to be on air). They don't have a big role, but slowly getting a bigger role as time has moved on. Usually quite alot are involved in Junior footy which is great, alot have a passion for the football, but just don't hear about them enough as it is a predominantly seen as a male sport.


2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?

Pretty much what Specky said. I am not against it if they are fit enough to be an umpire. They have to be able to run quite a bit, so if they can handle it, can't see why more of them can't get a role in football leagues. Small step with female goal umpires past few years, certainly can see more female on-field/boundary umpires in the near future.


3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?

Doesn't really bother me about gender here. If they have football knowledge and can coach, why not? Gender shouldn't really play a role here as it doesn't define how good somebody can motivate and coach their players. That would be my reaction, can certainly see some more "masculine" players who wouldn't want to be led by a female, but for me I wouldn't be fussed.


4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?

Same as above, pretty much what Specky has said as well :P.


5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)

Although they may be able to compete at the same level, I wouldn't allow for a mixed league for what Specky said, rules will be changed to suit (e.g. bumping/tackling). I for one don't tackle girls and I know others who wouldn't either. Can see Junior footy where kids are tackling anybody regardless of gender, but as fully grown adults, don't think they should be mixed. As Specky also said, if a male player did something to a female player, it would be more heavily scrutinised than if it was a male on male. That is more of a society thing though as people would want to protect the minority in the females, which would be an unfair sort of thing introduced with the introduction of women playing AFL.


6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)

Never watched a full game, although seen bits of some games on ABC a few years ago. Haven't watched it for like 1-2 years though.

7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?

I don't watch as many AFL games as I use to, but wouldn't be against watching women play professionally. Should be encouraging participation of females in the sport, and although may not be at the same standard as the men, who says it can't be just as entertaining. I'm open to this as a similar thing is happening in another sport I watch (MMA), where females are able to compete at the highest level as well. Just as entertaining as some of the male fights, some even moreso, so just got to be open to the idea!


8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?

Pretty much is gendered attitudes. For a long time, it was a male dominated organisation, still is really. AFL comes off as a "manly" sport, with limited involvement by females due to this. Barriers of entry also occur for females, as some females are limited to certain jobs available to them (interviewers, media personalities, etc). It has come further recent years than in the past, so there is some movement towards a bit more females involved, but still predominantly a male organisation.


9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?

You would like to think not, but sexism will be around regardless of what people say. There will always some people against the involvement of women, but as society has changed, more have become accepting of the increasing female role in it.

[Ziplock]

Thanks HP :) If you get an opportunity, I'd say seriously consider it... it can be surprisingly enlightening :P

[Justin Bieber]

Thanks HP :) If you get an opportunity, I'd say seriously consider it... it can be surprisingly enlightening :P

Had like 2 weeks of Gender and Crime in my first year Criminilogy subject, was quite interesting to learn about the differences in how they are treated in the criminal system and also potrayed in the media. Seeing as I'm doing Arts, may do a subject or two in it if I can fit in it somehow.

[Ziplock]

haha, yeah. I'm probably going to do another gender studies subject next semester as well :P

[Master Q]

Eh why not. I'll try and answer the questions to the best of my ability.

1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)

I've got no issue with it, as long as they are worthy for the job. If they know their footy, they have every right to be part of the media. What I do have an issue with it certain networks hiring women for the sake of having one on the team. While I never agree with Caro, it seems like she has a proper opinion at times and knows a thing or too about the game. On the other side of the spectrum is someone like Sam Lane, who I have no issue with as a person, I just feel like she was on Before The Game (And now Channel 7), to appeal to the middle aged woman. She never has anything interesting to say, and she just seems to be out of place and awkward on TV.

2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?

If they have what it takes, then yes they should have an equal opportunity to become an umpire.

3. I'd be surprised purely because I've never had a female coach handle my footy team and club. But the same thing applies as above, if they meet the requirements of a coach then I'd be absolutely fine with it.

4. Same as coach and umpire.

5. I'm not too sure, I'd think it would be better to keep it separate. We also are just assuming that females are worse than men at footy. Men don't get the chance to play in women leagues, and to be honest unless a league isn't available or has a high standard league available to players then I don't think women should play in men's leagues and vice versa. Same things what Specky said as well.

6. I may have seen a women footy match before but I can't remember any part of it  :P

7. I can't say how often I'd watch it because I'd have to be involved with a club or it would have to matter to me in someway I guess. I don't watch NBL because I like Basketball. I don't watch the English 3rd division if no interesting teams are playing. I don't watch County Cricket just because I like Cricket. To be honest I hardly ever watch the VFL, so I doubt I'd watch a Women's Aussie Rules league often.

[Ziplock]

To clarify Q5 Q, I think it's assuming that men are better than women by not allowing men to play in a womans league :P

If you have time, I'd appreciate answers to the more general questions of 8 and 9 as well :)

thanks though :)

[Master Q]

To clarify Q5 Q, I think it's assuming that men are better than women by not allowing men to play in a womans league :P

If you have time, I'd appreciate answers to the more general questions of 8 and 9 as well :)

thanks though :)

Whops. I meant to write "we". I'll fix it.

[Ziplock]

So this answer was sent to me in PM, from a source that doesn't want to be disclosed.

The Questions:

1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)

I get the impression trained eg Physio, masseurs, psychologists, etc are accepted for their skills on offer. Media females seem to be tryhards (imo) generally speaking. As in any area of work some people are better than others in anyones personal view. I am trying to say ..perhaps I dont like the approach of Caroline Wilson but like the approach of Kelly Underwood or Chloe Saltau but the next bloke / person likes the reverse. Wheras commenting on male media commentators is more bland and even handed.


2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?

An umpire selected on ability is just that. Training streams need work on giving / promoting the jobs to women but umpiring is simply umpiring.

3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?

Whoever gets through a selection process based on a fair criteria works for me. Of course the spin doctoring of the decision would be sensational and marketing the decision to sponsors, fans etc would be a massive challenge.

4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?

Same as Q3. Best person for the job is the best person.


5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)

I just cant see it happening Zip. I am probably a bit neanderthal in my view that simply physical differences (from late teenage onwards) will prevent any meaningful integration. Health and safety / insurance concerns by local clubs will block potential integration imo....misguided or not.

6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)

Have watched a couple of games. If any choice required AFL would get the view.

7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?

Yep. I watch a lot of sport.


8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?

Absolutely. The boys club mentality and arrogance of the opinion that " you need to have played elite football" to know anything is seriously an outdated and a serious blocker to establishing a culture of best people and practice. Changes in all levels of senior AFL should enable a massive widening of the applicant search base.

9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?

Actually I see it everywhere..and sadly I see it being promoted and therefore no sign of ending.  :-\

[Ziplock]

If anyone else has the time to do this, that'd be sweet :)

[Ringo]

Basically, as some of you may or may not know, I do gender studies as my elective at university, and I'm planning on writing my major essay this semester on women in Australian Rules Football.

So basically, I have a few quick questions to as you all, and I would really appreciate it if you could all give answers, especially if you feel strongly about the topic in eitherway. I have to do this on a publicly accessible domain, since I haven't gotten ethical clearance for this (purely bureaucratic), which means I need any responses to it on the forum, and not in PM's.

Please don't attack people for their views on these topics, whatever they are, friendly debate/ discussion is fine though. I personally won't be participating in any further discussion, except to thank people for their views, as well as asking people to clarify or expand on opinions(if necessary). If I need to use a specific quote from here, I'll PM anyone involved.

Thanks anyone who responds, answers to any of the questions is appreciated if you don't feel like answering them all :)

Remember, safe environment people, don't attack anyone. The most important part of this process is in people saying what they believe in.

The Questions:

1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)

I have no problems with it at all so long as they are chosen for their knowledge of the game and not a token gender appointment. We have had and have some knowledgeable female commentators at the moment  as has been mentioned previously.


2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?

Again no complaint here.  I have been following Chelsea Roffey for a while, started in Queensland and moved to Melbourne to improve her game which I admire.  If the ladies have the dedication and drive no reason why they can not achieve their goals. Would expect them to be scrutinised the same as male counterparts with no allowances made when they make it.


3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?

This would be an interesting hypothetical at it would possibly be the first case of a coach that has not played the game . However if she had been selected as the best person for the coaches job she would have my support,


4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?

Would have no problem here as some females are showing they have what it takes to run companies and this can be transferred to AFL clubs.

5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)

This is probably the only area where I disagree with integration. Whilst it is OK at Junior Levels with the developing bodies and physiological issues there would be differences. Rules may have to be changed to allow.  Do not mean to sound Neanderthal here but what would happen if you tackled an opposing female player hard subsequently to find she did not know she was pregnant and had a miscarriage. (Would devastate you as well) What a minefield insurance wise for clubs as well if these issues are not addressed up front by rule relaxation causing a further diminishing of the game.  From experience used to play mixed Touch football but treaded wearily when approaching females and suspect this may be the case if women allowed to play in elite sport.


6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
There was a game of womens AFL as a pre lim game to a reserves game I watched and I enjoyed it.


7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?

Would watch on TV and if it was the prelimto main game athen yes.



8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?

It is getting better but has taken a lot of effort.  Boys club mentality still exists and until such time this is totally removed from society will be there as obstacles for females to overcome. Once the trialblazers breakthrough the barrier I can see more and more women becoming involved.

9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?

As above there is a some sexism in society and this reaches across to the AFL in some areas. Personally I think until this attitude is overcome Women will be scrutinised a lot more harshly then men for the same roles.




I understand that's a reasonable amount of questions, and I would be really grateful to any answers to them at all. Explanations for your answers would be great as well if you're willing to offer them. This is a pretty informal process, so I might put up new questions occasionally is they come to mind.

I understand that this is a mainly male community, but I'm also pretty interested in the responses of women. If you happen to be responding to this and are a woman, can you please say so (but if you don't necessarily want people to know that you are female for what ever reason, feel free to send me a PM).

If anyone has any wives, girlfriends, sister etc. who'd be willing to answer these questions as well, that would be really appreciate too. I'd be really interested to hear answers to questions 1, 5, 6 from women (although, with 6 I'd like to hear if they'd participated in the competition ever).

Once again, thanks everyone who participates :)

[LaHug]

I'll be super quick because I'm studying for an exam on Monday

1. What is your opinion on the role of women in the AFL and its community? (so this includes media, participation in the non-professional leagues such as juniors etc.)

It varies by person (which leads me to think the best response would be that I have no problem with it if they're good at what they do). Basically, those trained to do a medical job and do it well, I'm 100% fine with. Anyone that promotes our game to juniors is good with me. I often dislike those in the media that speak about the game as if they've played it at the level of the players. Obviously, women don't play in the AFL so media personalities that speak as if they know the game inside and out get on my nerves. I'd much rather hear Tom Harley talk strategy than Caroline Wilson.


2. What is your view on female umpires, in general and as compared to male umpires?
Not a fan of field umpires being female because AFL footy is a game designed for big, imposing, and intimidating men. I just don't see a female being able to control players. I do, however, think a female boundary or goal umpire is as worthy as a man IF they can do the job just as well. No special treatment just because it might make the league look good.


3. If your club was to hire a female head coach, what would your reaction be, and why?
In all honesty, I'd be against it because I think the best coaches are almost always ex-players and a female can't have played at that level.


4. If your club was to instate a female president, what would your reaction be, and why?
Wouldn't be phased in the slightest. I don't even know what the president does most of the time.


5. What is your opinion on the integration of women into the AFL (to clarify, in a hypothetical scenario where women who are good enough are allowed to play at the elite level, in the same competition as men)
Can't even comprehend that question. Women and men are very physically different. I just don't see how it could possibly happen. On the off chance that a freak woman appears, I say "sure, why not!"


6. Have you ever watched a game of Women's Australian Football? If so, how often would you say you watch it?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Australian_rules_football)
Never watched it but highlights on the news bored me, tbh. It was a slower game and less athletic.


7. If Women's Australian Football became a professional competition, would you watch it?
I'd likely give it a chance but probably not if it were slower and less athletic like a lot of other female sports tend to be.


8. Do you see a lack of female participation at the elite organisational level (coaches, presidents, umpires) as a reflection of gendered attitudes in Australian Rules Football? And if so, what attitudes do you think they represent?
Some roles are likely due to the whole "women don't know about football" stereotype. There are roles that, as I've said before, I believe are best suited for ex-players so I don't think a woman would suit.


9. Do you see attitudes of sexism as prevalent in Australian Rules Football?
From some, yes. But it varies from person to person and case to case.

[Ziplock]

thanks guys!