Neeld Taking the Demons Backwards?

BB67th · April 04, 2013, 06:47:35 PM

Watching AFL 360 I found a really interesting piece where they talked about why Melbourne lost last weekend.

Pretty much David King and Mark Maclure say that with the changes to the side that Neeld made over the off season, the club has only been pushed back another 5 years in its development. And really I have to agree with them. How are players like Byrnes, Rodan and Dawes going to help them get to the top, when they are giving away high draft picks for these old players? Anyway these guys explain it better and I thought that what they had to say was really true. Here's the link to it.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-coach-mark-neeld-to-ignore-backlash-and-criticism-following-round-1-thrashing/story-e6frepho-1226611979676

So what do Melbourne supporters think? Personally I think Melbourne will finish last this year and Mark Neeld will be sacked.

Purple 77 · April 04, 2013, 07:40:00 PM

Not directed at you BB, but why is everyone hating on Dawes?

The only reason he had a shocker of a year last year because he was being played in a position where he can't; second ruckman. The fella had a great year in 2010, and although anyone could have gone well in that team, you can't deny that he did play very well that year.

People also say 2011 wasn't good for Dawes either, but really, he did have a good year, he just didn't stand out as much as he did in 2010. He still had a good year I thought.

Dawes playing as a forward; the position he played in 2010, is a fantastic player. Just wait and see :P

But yeah, Byrnes and Rodan won't do much on field that is for sure, but initially they were only brought in for more of an off-field influence IMO, experience, culture blah blah blah..... doubting if its making a difference lol. Losing the players we did was hard to see, whether they be experienced or a high draft pick, but as a club, you need to look at those players without their labels, and just see what they are bringing to the club, and high draft picks like Gysberts and Cook just weren't cutting it.

Gonna make my outright judgement on the 2013 demons after the bombers game, and if we win, will make judgement after round 3. Still undecided....

BB67th · April 04, 2013, 08:28:37 PM

Well I wasn't having a go directly at Dawes, he is a good player in his own right, but you have to question why Melbourne decided to bring him in now. It's not like they have the real forward structure and set up that is going to allow his game to excel.

But it's not Dawes specifically that's the problem. It's the whole recruitment strategy that they have gone with, saying it's a 'Moneyball' approach. But really it's not. They have brought in these senior players to give them experience, but they should have done what the Bulldogs did instead. The Bulldogs kept their old players from when they were a successful team like Murphy, Giansiracusa and they are doing their job as the old firm should. But Melbourne went and over the last 5 years have traded out the likes of Johnstone and McLean. Really they should have kept these guys.

And then to pick up people like Rodan and Byrnes, they are wasting draft picks that should be used on getting kids into the game and getting as much game time as possible into them so they will actually have a chance of being a successful team. A lot of people have said that the expansion clubs have disadvantaged them in the recent drafts, but they really haven't. They have had picks and traded them for nothing players really.

And also there is this point on Melbourne's team culture. I don't see them having a positive team culture at all. I don't see who is the person who stands up for club, who is the person that keeps the team in order, who is the person who dictates actions and day to day life at the club. They haven't been a winning team, and don't have that winning culture and feeling to strive for. But they don't have that professional culture that they need. Really Grimes and Trengrove being made captains shows this and shows that players can't reach their full playing and leadership potential with the club.

Right now the club is in a dark place and personally I think it is only going to get worse. I don't see where improvement into this team list and culture can come from with Mark Neeld at the helm. I think the club firstly needs a strong President, a big voice out and about, someone like Eddy or Brayshaw, who can get the club out there and be in other people's faces. Then they need a new coach, an experienced one, Paul Roos would be the perfect fit. Someone who can turn the club around, turn everyone there into a real professional player and start to build a list that actually will be competitive in 5 years time.

The real comment that lasted with me was With Neeld at the front, Melbourne's 5 year plan is going to become a 13 or 14 year plan with a new coach having to come in after Neeld is sacked and start all over again.

Rant over

Cicjose · April 04, 2013, 09:18:48 PM

but who has been a longtime Melbourne supporter who can and is willing to take up the presidency....

Gary Lyon certainly won't

Big Mac · April 05, 2013, 02:11:44 PM

But the thing is, we have been taking high draft picks, for 5 years. But we haven't been able to develop any of them into players that are actually capable of playing AFL. So we need to get players that are proven, instead of taking the luck of the draw.

BB67th · April 05, 2013, 05:49:27 PM

Yes well the fact that no players have really been able to be developed to me points towards this culture problem that they have. With the talent they have gotten in recent years, they really should have been able to do a lot better with it. I'm not going to go into Jack Watts.

But finding old players isn't the answer. Who says that their careers aren't going to stagnate in the exact same way and that they aren't going to find themselves in the exact same position as those youngsters.

I think there needs to be some big internal changes at Melbourne, and soon.

T Dog · April 05, 2013, 09:53:24 PM

" that's not a light at the end of the tunnel..it's an on coming train".. ::)

Cicjose · April 07, 2013, 02:22:26 AM

if they get run over by that train they will see the light tho

Tominator · April 07, 2013, 10:26:22 AM

Quote from: Cicjose on April 07, 2013, 02:22:26 AM
if they get run over by that train they will see the light tho

it's a bloody big train....

Spinking · April 07, 2013, 11:43:11 AM

Have heard a few opinions on TV this morning suggesting that Neeld should not be blamed too much, and that responsibility for the poor performances lies more with the players. I couldn't disagree more.

The role of a coach in motivating and getting the team up aside, the coaching staff are primarily responsible for setting the structures and teaching the players to use them. The lack of effective structure was evident last night, particularly inside forward and defensive 50. Neeld has a good reputation as a strategic coach, but honestly I can't see it. They may not have the best cattle, but a better coach could have shut the game down, and given the Dees a shot of taking something from the game.

AFEV · April 07, 2013, 12:30:00 PM

Quote from: Spinking on April 07, 2013, 11:43:11 AM
Have heard a few opinions on TV this morning suggesting that Neeld should not be blamed too much, and that responsibility for the poor performances lies more with the players. I couldn't disagree more.

The role of a coach in motivating and getting the team up aside, the coaching staff are primarily responsible for setting the structures and teaching the players to use them. The lack of effective structure was evident last night, particularly inside forward and defensive 50. Neeld has a good reputation as a strategic coach, but honestly I can't see it. They may not have the best cattle, but a better coach could have shut the game down, and given the Dees a shot of taking something from the game.

Must agree with you Spink. Hurts to see this happen to Mark because I know him and he's a great guy, but perhaps not hard enough to be a senior coach.
The thing I keep hearing is 'the players just don't seem interested' ... well...Whose fault is that? I'd say it's the coach 99 times out of 100.

As an Essendon supporter I stopped watching after 3 quarter time. I enjoy a win as much as the next fan but I really didn't enjoy that.

Toga · April 07, 2013, 12:57:48 PM

Chin up Melbourne supporters, you'll get through this.

Wasn't on free to air in Adelaide but it was painful just checking the scores as they progressed over the night, I really feel for you guys :(

I've heard a lot of talk about it being the players' fault/the coach's fault, but I'm looking at it from a different point of view... Is it the AFL's fault (at least partially)? If I were a Demons supporter I would be very disappointed with the league itself. Your club is struggling, both financially and on the field, but they choose to enter two new expansion teams into the comp, which will take up a huge chunk of the AFL's revenue to set up... Money that could be better spent on your club?

And it hasn't just hurt you financially imo... Look at all of those top 10 picks that have gone to Gold Coast and GWS... I'm sure some of those as compensation picks would've been nice for you guys, but instead all of this young talent is being hoarded by the expansion clubs... If you guys aren't receiving compensation picks at the end of this year, and more talent flows to the expansion clubs, then there is definitely something wrong, and something needs to be done about it.

Not saying I'm not a fan of the expansion clubs (I'd love to see Gold Coast and GWS flourish as clubs), but think their introduction to the competition has been a bit detrimental to Melbourne so far, I just hope you guys can get back up on the horse again... Melbourne FC is a proud club and I have a soft spot for you guys, and would hate to see the club continue to stagnate and continue to disappoint its supporters...

BB67th · April 07, 2013, 01:53:44 PM

You make some interesting points there Toga, but you can hardly say it's the AFL's fault here. The Demons have had the picks in recent years, but they have recruited badly, look at the picks of Scully and Watts just to start with. Look at Port Adelaide and the Western Bulldogs, they have endured the same difficulties, yet they do look like bouncing back. Really there has been a lot of bad choices made at the club recently, all of them contributing to the stage that they are at now.

Toga · April 07, 2013, 02:23:24 PM

Quote from: BB67th on April 07, 2013, 01:53:44 PM
You make some interesting points there Toga, but you can hardly say it's the AFL's fault here. The Demons have had the picks in recent years, but they have recruited badly, look at the picks of Scully and Watts just to start with. Look at Port Adelaide and the Western Bulldogs, they have endured the same difficulties, yet they do look like bouncing back. Really there has been a lot of bad choices made at the club recently, all of them contributing to the stage that they are at now.

Good point BB. I forgot to add that while Melbourne have probably missed out on a few picks that they might've had otherwise, they have recruited poorly with the picks that they have had, so some of the blame has to fall back on them..

Master Q · April 07, 2013, 02:26:01 PM

Agree with pretty much everything in this thread, although IMO it is mainly the culture. Who was at that press conference last night, O that's right, just Mark Neeld. No President. No (Co) Captain. No Senior Player. No Assistant Coach. Just Neeld. What does that tell you.

At full strength, I still think Melbourne can turn it somewhat around. In form Clark and Dawes up front with delivery could see them winning some games...

Also, a quiet reminder that Richmond went through virtually the same thing as Melbourne...