Step up, Brent Stanton, and do a job on Patrick Dangerfield

[Ziplock]

fletch had him when he was sitting forward

[Ziplock]

fletch looked so good out there lol. Go until 40? :P

[Colliwobblers]

You guys realise Hocking was doing a lot of the tagging on Danger too. give him some credit. and the old man.

thought he was on him for the last 3 quarters and in that time there basically was no dangerfield.

are you agreeing with me for Hocking?
I believe Fletch had him for just a little bit.

yep zip was right about fletch, but he was only hiding up fwd because hocking was wearing him like a hat in the middle.

Hocking just earned a spot on my BEWARE list.

Like when teams with my mids play brisbane (raines) bulldogs (picken) fremantle (crowley) I cringe and often look elsewhere in my team for a captain.

Was an outstanding effort from hocking who had him for the most part, but i think SURPRISINGLY danger also gave in a bit.

didn't expect it and don't think we will see it again but danger seemed to wither under the attention, as well as he was ridden to the ground 3 or 4 times which could have been should have been frees for him, but he didnt get them, and he also got a couple against him which were right calls but wouldnt have been last season.

just think there was a bit of "ah flower this" about him, and thought he was / IS better than that.

[tbagrocks]

Nice win, impressive running and solid pressure, stopped the guns and put behind them the contravercies

We know how good you looked early last season, looks like they are up and running again!

[kilbluff1985]

Nice win, impressive running and solid pressure, stopped the guns and put behind them the contravercies

We know how good you looked early last season, looks like they are up and running again!

Thanks Tbag I'm sure your guys will bounce back

[DazBurg]

cannot really say the development is wrong at essendon it's just in the last few years of sheedy we made ay to many ridiculous trades as far as first or 2nd round drafting goes lets looks at a comparison

collingwood year by year since 2002
Bo Nixon - pick 21 2002
Luke Shackleton - pick 29 2002
Billy Morrison - pick 17 2003
Brayden shaw - pick 32 2003
Chris Egan - Pick 10 2004
Sean Rusling - pick 23 2004
Dale thomas - priority pick 2 2005
Scott Pendlebury - pick 5 2005
Ben Reid - pick 8 2006
Nathan Brown pick 10 2006
Chris Dawes pick 28 2006
John McCarthy pick 31 2007 (pies didnt hae a 1st rounder)
Steele Sidebottom pick 11 2008
Dayne Beams pick 29 2008
Luke Ball pick 30 2009 (but cannot really take credit for his development)
2010 no ist or 2nd round pick
2011 no ist or 2nd round pick

so the only ones there you can make a case for are
thomas, pendles,beams
and sidebottom on the up aswell

but the year you got thomas and pendles we drafted
ryder and dempsey
may not be as great but not too shabby atm

and the year you got sidebottom and beams we got
Hurley and zaharakis

hurley will take longer as not a mid and zaha has had a shocking run with injury

so all in all i think the bombers really don't fair that much worse off then collingwood in terms of development of round 1 or 2 players

p.s essendon Priority was jetta at the end of round 1 compared to thomas before the start of the draft

[Colliwobblers]

Daz, the difference is 6 of those pies players you listed are or were elite. (champion data ranked elite)

You forgot Travis Cloke (2004 - father son) and Heath Shaw (2003 father son) [fair equivalent of first round picks?]

T Cloke
B Reid
S Pendlebury
D Thomas
H Shaw
D Beams

think you can pencil sidebottom in for the elite bracket sooner rather than later.

also think there are quite a few bombers who could be pencilled in for elite category, but the thing with the elite bracket is you have to be in the top 10% of the AFL for your position, so it isn't easy to get ranked elite. few do.

probably should have thought the post through before i made it, was always going to offend bombers fans, but no offense was intended.

just interested in the "delay" in development of what i see as a VERY GOOD crop of talent you have there.

should be a powerhouse when the key fwd is ready and a few mids come on that little more, rucks are sorted defenders are pretty solid.

[roo boys!]

cannot really say the development is wrong at essendon it's just in the last few years of sheedy we made ay to many ridiculous trades as far as first or 2nd round drafting goes lets looks at a comparison

collingwood year by year since 2002
Bo Nixon - pick 21 2002
Luke Shackleton - pick 29 2002
Billy Morrison - pick 17 2003
Brayden shaw - pick 32 2003
Chris Egan - Pick 10 2004
Sean Rusling - pick 23 2004
Dale thomas - priority pick 2 2005
Scott Pendlebury - pick 5 2005
Ben Reid - pick 8 2006
Nathan Brown pick 10 2006
Chris Dawes pick 28 2006
John McCarthy pick 31 2007 (pies didnt hae a 1st rounder)
Steele Sidebottom pick 11 2008
Dayne Beams pick 29 2008
Luke Ball pick 30 2009 (but cannot really take credit for his development)
2010 no ist or 2nd round pick
2011 no ist or 2nd round pick

so the only ones there you can make a case for are
thomas, pendles,beams
and sidebottom on the up aswell

but the year you got thomas and pendles we drafted
ryder and dempsey
may not be as great but not too shabby atm

and the year you got sidebottom and beams we got
Hurley and zaharakis

hurley will take longer as not a mid and zaha has had a shocking run with injury

so all in all i think the bombers really don't fair that much worse off then collingwood in terms of development of round 1 or 2 players

p.s essendon Priority was jetta at the end of round 1 compared to thomas before the start of the draft

Very harsh on Ben Reid! I really rate him as a top top defender. Brown's gone OK too obviously not close to elite but better at the moment than Jetta.

Feels strange defending Collingwood but you can't honestly compare Thomas and Pendles to Ryder and Dempsey and even Hurley and Zaka to Beams and Sidey two of the top 20 mids in the comp and still very young.

Yeah some of them have had a tough run with injury particularly Zaka out of that bunch and he certainly has the potential but if you asked 100 people if they'd rather Beams/Sidey or Zaka/Hurley I think it's fair to say 99 would take the Pies boys.

Sorry Daz, I truly respect you as a person and respect your opinion, but you well and truly have your red and black glasses on for this one!

[Colliwobblers]

just so you understand this has nothing to do with collingwood, my comment originally was questioning the club staff's ability to develop their talent.

West Coast another rich club has 7 elite players on their list - one more than Collingwood.

Think the lists of elite players at each club may directly correlate with the spend in the football department, which is why the AFL are seriously looking at some way to equalize the clubs somewhat in that area.

I thought the bombers were on the rich side of the ledger or at least the well resourced side of the ledger.

But I am no expert on the bombers as said many times, i just had and continue to have rather high expectations of a good number of their players coming through...

[DazBurg]

not offended from you colli or you RB

my point is that colli was saying our first round development is not good
not saying essendon has better players but im simply stating
that comparing the two teams collingwood have only really
cemented thomas,pendles, beams and sidey and sidey probablky just short of being classed as elite but right on the cuspas u said sooner rather then later but not quite yet
reid i do rate but you cannot say he is elite thats like me calling hurley elite

(colli i didnt include shaw and cloke due to not being first rounders same as i didnt include watson for essendon)

so my point is not that essendon is better then collingwood since well results show that they are not
i am simply showing that this perceived poor development is actually not as bad as it seems
collingwood have developed some good players but more they have drafted smartly and turned lower rounders into good players rather then relying on first rounders
same as geelong done well

where as essendon have not developed the latter drafted players like the better clubs have

[DazBurg]

oh and collingwood have traded well
unlike essendon especially in sheedy last few years  ::)

btw im not upset or offended i actually am enjoying this discussion
i am simply stating that its not the first round development that is the problem more to the point the 3rd rounders that havent come on which may be development or it could be poor recruiting

yes there are a few names you could say essendon havent turned in elite from first round

but my point Dane swan pick 58
now look how important he is  :o
that what we missing like hird pick 79 need to get back to there

[Colliwobblers]

yes money talks i guess, the next few years may change a lot in how the poorer (not essendon so much) clubs are resourced and supported, which in turn and which is the aim will lead to 18 competative clubs, not competative as in try hard, the aim is to have 18 clubs capable of winnning the flag each season.

will never work out that way, but i like the idea and look forward to seeing a more even and compettive league even as a supporter of a club at the top of the money/resource tree i like football more than collingwood, obviously no footy = no collingwood, so look forward to the developments in this area.

my point with the bombers are i think they should be better than they are, which is a compliment to the players and maybe a slight dig at the club staff / programmes.

nothing to do at all with the preseason nonsense, hoping that is all just a slight step over a line and will all blow over as a bad judgement call by a sports scientist and nothing more.

and for the record reid is ranked as elite both last season and this season, according to champion data anyway he is in the top 10% of defenders in the AFL.

Hurley is rated above average (top 11% - 35%) of position type.

[kilbluff1985]

Sheedy tried to hard to have another crack at the flag by trading in guys like Murphy and a few other senior blokes this really hurt us imo

[Colliwobblers]

Sheedy tried to hard to have another crack at the flag by trading in guys like Murphy and a few other senior blokes this really hurt us imo

hawks could feel this pain in the next few seasons for the same reasons. (lpicks for lake) and while they have got some good kids coming through i think they have more stars on the way out than they have replacements for.

still they could do a geelong and just have a slight dip for a few years and then right back up.

and when the stars go they have the cash to pay free agents i guess

[kilbluff1985]

and i don't think you should blame this on the current coaching staff Colli