Performance-enhancing drugs in the AFL

[Windigo]

41 million taken from one legal bet exchange in asia.

"A League is at a huge risk for match fixing."

[Ziplock]

I suppose you could, but I for one if I was a Bombers supported I wouldn't be paying money to go watch them.

And sponsors will be running a mile....and then it becomes a real issue about fielding anything

too bad their drug days are over, or essendon might have been able to chase and catch them...

[Southstorm]

41 million taken from one legal bet exchange in asia.

"A League is at a huge risk for match fixing."

And FIFA is having similar match fixing scandals at the moment so this definitely looks bad.

[Ringo]

Watch is on ABC News 24??

"Is this one of the blackest days in sport?"

-"No, it's THE blackest day in Australian sport."

Yeh watching it, sitting here in disbelief of whats just been spoken about. :o

I am flabbergasted with what has been said in this watching live.   Just agree with what Sheedy (live now)  said lets act now and get it out of the system and not like cycling tip toe around it for 20 years.

Really black day for Australian Sport in general.

[GCSkiwi]

It's a tricky issue and to be honest a lot of the press conference stuff is weasel words. Present in many codes to varying depths of legality - I'm 100% sure that there would be some people in every sporting code in this country who are taking an illegal substance. For some the lure of competition glory is to strong, and any lengths will be gone to for victory. So to say it's in every sport is irrelevant IMO.

Varying depths of legality - one of the things about being a competitive athlete is that you are always looking for ways to train harder, longer, better or to improve your performance. As such, things are developed on an ongoing basis to assist that, cutting edge technology and pharmacology will always be involved. WADA try to stay on top of this by blanket banning fields of activity (for example anything which has an effect on myostatin function in the body is banned. Myostatin limits muscle growth and has been a drug development target for years. Nothing significantly useful has been found yet, but the ban is there in case it is developed). But there are always things developed which are not technically illegal,but are still dodgy. For instance EPO - there would have been a window between the development of synthetic EPO and it's banning where it was legal - that's a massive grey area - taking a substance which will almost certainly be banned, but hasn't been yet. comes down to morals and ethics of individuals involved. But it's a great line for a press conference, that's the varying depths of legality - stuff that currently is legal but soon wont be, once it becomes mainstream/noticed enough.

Leaving the legality issue aside, one of the biggest challenges for WADA and their respective national agencies is actually detection of performance enhancing substance abuse. Just making something illegal is relatively meaningless if you can't get evidence of it's use. It's somewhat analogous to computer hackers - you get the guys like anonymous who go on hacking crusades, and you get the likes of the FBI cyber crime squad who try and stop them. They likely have extremely similar skill sets, it's how they use them that differs, and it becomes a cat and mouse game of who can stay ahead. Same with WADA and drug developers. WADA would have research scientists whose job it is to come up with tests for illicit substances, or comprehensive circumstantial evidence of drug use. Similarly, there would be skilled chemists sitting in labs right now trying to synthesise the next super steroid or undetectable drug which unscrupulous athletes and sports teams will pay through the nose for. Again with the example of EPO, it was around in drug form in the late 1980's, but I don't believe EPO itself could be detected until the early 2000's - they simply couldn't tell the synthetic stuff from the natural form in the body. That's a decade where it could be used without detection... Thus other limits were put in place.

If you want exciting professional sport, you must be prepared for the darker side that will inevitably ALWAYS be with it.

[Ringo]

Good expose GCS and well put.

As an aside am I being cynical by thinking it is more than coincidence that Essendon came out with this just prior to the report that has come out today from the 18 month investigation into drugs in sport.

[Grazz]

Good expose GCS and well put.

As an aside am I being cynical by thinking it is more than coincidence that Essendon came out with this just prior to the report that has come out today from the 18 month investigation into drugs in sport.

I think that had more to do with Reimers going public Tuesday so Essendon beat him to the punch, alot like the Crows situation, just my thoughts.

11.08am: How many AFL clubs are involved? Demetriou: "I don't know the answer to that. We already had our briefing, we already commenced our investigation with ASADA and we will be working with them, the ACC and state police bodies.


GWS TO MAKE THE 8! :P

on a serious note, I don't see them banning the club. What they may do is ban the players who participated, and allow essendon some equivalent access of vfl players/ delisted players in order to field a side.

And then heloooooooooooooo essendon rookies into the team :). So many cows hhahha

actually a best case scenario for dreamteam. And my euros squad, since I have no dons in it :P

No one would wanna watch a VFL side in the AFL. Would be worse than watching GWS.  :P

ehhh, you could build a reasonable squad from delisted player/ gun vfl player/ 18yo potential draftees (if the AFL was really nice, of course essendon would lose all their draft picks next season as well though :P )

Actually think it will be the other way around. If an Essendon official administered the drugs, I'd be more inclined to punish the club not the players.

Reckon if Essendon are guilty (and that's still a big if), playing for no premiership points like the Storm did the other year would be the best punishiment.

Not entirely sure if ASADA have powers over the AFL like they do other sports maybe GCSkiwi can enlighten me here. My worry is for EFC now ASADA are in control of the investigation wouldnt they ensure that 1 or 2 year bans or longer are implemented against any player or official that was involved in any wrong doing and the punishment is now out of the control of the AFL. Under WADA/ASADA guidelines bans are implemented imediately with a 3/4 reduction on that penalty if the guilty have assisted in the investigation, also ignorance is no excuse the individual is responsible for what is put in his body.

[Capper]

Some more details
http://www.fanfooty.com.au/forum/index.php/topic,71576.msg981924.html#msg981924

[Capper]

- Dons say they became aware in past 48 hours of possible substance use.
- They contacted the AFL and ASADA and an investigation has now been launched.
- James Hird says he's shocked and disappointed.
- Dons didn't say how many players possibly implicated.

But if you do the math, 48 hours before was when Watson went in for scans on his knee

[Ziplock]

please, that means nothing.

I've had pretty much every scan done on various parts of my body due to injury at one point or another- there's no way for a knee scan that they would take a blood sample etc. that they would need to identify if he'd been on drugs. Then there's the window for the actual testing of a sample.

that's just coincidence.

[GCSkiwi]

As an aside am I being cynical by thinking it is more than coincidence that Essendon came out with this just prior to the report that has come out today from the 18 month investigation into drugs in sport.

Not at all. I was thinking exactly that after the timing of the AFL drug summit and then the Dons coming out saying they wanted an investigation. However, I will give them credit that they immediately got ASADA involved, which is a big step - they could have kept it in house with the AFL. So I think there may be some level of genuine confession/culpability here.

@Grazz - ASADA is a governmental regulatory body, I'm virtually certain they can trump the AFL should the choose to. I'm pretty sure that ASADA regulates all levels of sport across the nation. To be honest I'm not entirely sure either but I fail to see why the AFL would be excluded from ASADA's reach.

[GCSkiwi]

To anyone thinking the bombers might get off light, may I refer you to this:
http://www.asada.gov.au/rules_and_violations/sanctions.html
count the number of 2 year bans on there...

Also notice that the guys banned for GHRP-6, something the media has been throwing around about the bombers, it's all possesion or attempted use - meaning they were either caught in the act or caught with the stuff. I don't actually know if presence can be detected...

Also for peoples information, the actual ASADA rule sheet:
http://www.asada.gov.au/rules_and_violations/8_rule_violations.html
It's not just use of a drug you can be banned for...

[Tominator]

And you blokes called the Crows cheats...

[Grazz]

As an aside am I being cynical by thinking it is more than coincidence that Essendon came out with this just prior to the report that has come out today from the 18 month investigation into drugs in sport.

Not at all. I was thinking exactly that after the timing of the AFL drug summit and then the Dons coming out saying they wanted an investigation. However, I will give them credit that they immediately got ASADA involved, which is a big step - they could have kept it in house with the AFL. So I think there may be some level of genuine confession/culpability here.

@Grazz - ASADA is a governmental regulatory body, I'm virtually certain they can trump the AFL should the choose to. I'm pretty sure that ASADA regulates all levels of sport across the nation. To be honest I'm not entirely sure either but I fail to see why the AFL would be excluded from ASADA's reach.

Thanks mate, ive also read another article today that says ASADA would impose 2 year bans to the individual only they dont impose bans on clubs. Everything ive read suggests they will impose these bans if any individual is found guilty and the AFL have no control now they are involved. The AFL will however be able to sanction the club/clubs involved.

Im glad its all out there now and all sports are being investigated for illegal supplement use and criminal involvement in all sports.
Its a cancer and needs to be cut out. I dont care who it is how well known or not, throw the book at them.

[ossie85]

And you blokes called the Crows cheats...

Whether you steal a billion dollars or steal $100, you're still a thief!