Adelaide's midfield v Richmond's midfield

[kilbluff1985]

For overall list quality however Hawthorn is 1st and West Coast 2nd even though they are 9th and 7th respectively for midfield strength!

rather Swan. Pendles. Beams. Ball over 4 Hawks in mids

he said for overall list not just mids

[tbagrocks]

For overall list quality however Hawthorn is 1st and West Coast 2nd even though they are 9th and 7th respectively for midfield strength!

rather Swan. Pendles. Beams. Ball over 4 Hawks in mids

Add the bum, don't think anyone can claim to match the woods midfield, however...

This discussion if about overall depth through the midfield!

[Ziplock]

they're both shower, what a pointless poll- who cares who has the better mids between  two bottom 10 teams?

burnt.

[TeeJay]

A couple of coaches said that Richmond had the best midfield in the comp last year. I think it was Scott waters and someone else I cant remember. They are right up there. I would say only the pies are ahead of them

[Sapientia]

VB really stepped up last year as did Matty Wright, both are ahead of Vince, Dmac and Douchy

If you're going to compare the 4-6 spots then those two first with a rejuvenated Bernie Vince really hit his straps late in the year

If you didn't see or appreciate what VB, Vince and Wright did especially in the second half of the year when Thommo and Sloane got tired then you weren't paying attention

Btw Brodie Smith will pounce into that top 5 for Adelaide this year ;) he really stepped up late and starred in finals and Dmac is all class

Our kids are a better bunch as well

Stop kidding yourselfs about the Richmond midfield ;D Sure it's a strong line up but does not have the depth of Adelaide

Don't believe me ??? Just watch Wright, Smith and Crouch this year and also what VB does, and if Mitch Grigg or Sammy Kerridge get a run watch what they do, they're all class

While I rate Matty Wright I'm not defining him as a bona fide midfielder; part of his role is to rotate forward (moreso than most midfielders). Judging him as a pure midfielder would be rash; he's a bit-part one.

Vince is still a very ordinary player who does some very special things. For the most part though he's ordinary and his flashes of brilliance don't make up for his abhorrent footskills and lazy defensive side of his game. He's one of the last picked, I'd say. Very average player.

If you genuinely think Brodie Smith will be in the top 5 mids on our list next season you're deluded. The lad was close to a revelation as a small back; he's got a solid running aspect to his game, and awesome footskills out of defence, hits targets, breaks open plays and begins attacks, and that's only his offensive side. As defensive player he was equally as good.

Especially with the retirement of Doughty and movement of Van Berlo into a more midfield oriented role, as well as the decline & move forward of Johncock, a quality small back is an absolute essential for our list and Smith seems to fit the bill. A move into the midfield would be awful for him, and for the team.

MacKay's still an ordinary player too - inconsistent, drifts in and out of games and lacks an inside game. Defensively weak as well.

Crouch will be a good player, I'll give you that one. I'd love him to be elite but I don't think he will, I think he'll be good. And I think he'll disappoint you (but impress me) next season. His inclusion won't be an immediate benefit to the midfield - but a long term one.

Grigg is an awful player and I don't even think he'll play 20 AFL games. Made his name as a ballwinning junior with average footskills and he can't even win the ball in the SANFL reserves. Kerridge looked solid in the early season but he really floundered for Sturt in the SANFL, inconsistent, patchy and ineffective at the best of times. If he became a passable regular in an AFL side this season it'd be incredibly surprising; he needs time.

I don't mean to patronise or berate you, but you're awfully biased and to a degree, clueless. I doubt you've ever seen Mitch Grigg play more than a youtube video, for example. I can tell you that I go to SANFL games, I watch underage games and have seen the players you speak of numerous times, enough to know that there are serious flaws in their game. Just because they're on the Crows list it doesn't make them an awesome player.

Yet again, I'd love you to be right about it all, but you won't be.

Sapientia.

[tbagrocks]

Stop being such a smart ass, of course i've seen these guys play and I thing you are a little nit right and mostly wrong, next you'll say Luke Brown can't slot into the back pocket?

Smith and Wright are developing, players as they mature move into stronger roles for their club they don't just keep playing the same role every year, Smith is far more than a back pocket sorry but you are wrong

Calling me deluded :o When it comes to watching young crows talant develop I am usually right so get of your high horse buddy ;)

[JBs-Hawks]

You just got put in your place by a fellow crows supporter lol.

[tbagrocks]

Bulldust just a different opinion ;)

You're the Norwood supporter JB tell us how you see Mitch Grigg? From what i've seen he is a very good footballer, natural and hard, thoughts?

[kilbluff1985]

You just got put in your place by a fellow crows supporter lol.

yeah made me lol

[tbagrocks]

Wtf we are just going to believe some moron who pops up claiming to know everything ::)

Get stuffed, you're gonna believe some idiot because he thinks he can write an essay ::)

Anyone can claim anything, doesn't make it true :P

Btw I don't care if you choose not to heed my words, makes it easy for me when a Kerridge is named

Or have we all forgotten Sammy Shaw? How I tried to tell everyone to get on him as the Crows favored him? (don't pretend I didn't)

Or when I tried to warn all others that Adelaide players such as Thommo would not be rested? Well they weren't, only the tired Sloane was rested, many seemed to think players would be rested but I said they won't be! So was I right then?

But you're right I know nothing about the Adelaide footrball club ::)

So once Sam Kerridge and Luke Brown are named round one I want an apology!

[JBs-Hawks]

Bulldust just a different opinion ;)

You're the Norwood supporter JB tell us how you see Mitch Grigg? From what i've seen he is a very good footballer, natural and hard, thoughts?

I dont watch the reserves games ;)

[Sapientia]

(note to everyone, I'm going on a rant for the next few paragraphs. Unless you're tbag I don't think you should read it for fear of boredom. I tilde (~~~) when the rant is over :p)

Wtf we are just going to believe some moron who pops up claiming to know everything ::)

Get stuffed, you're gonna believe some idiot because he thinks he can write an essay ::)

Anyone can claim anything, doesn't make it true :P

Btw I don't care if you choose not to heed my words, makes it easy for me when a Kerridge is named

Or have we all forgotten Sammy Shaw? How I tried to tell everyone to get on him as the Crows favored him? (don't pretend I didn't)

Or when I tried to warn all others that Adelaide players such as Thommo would not be rested? Well they weren't, only the tired Sloane was rested, many seemed to think players would be rested but I said they won't be! So was I right then?

But you're right I know nothing about the Adelaide footrball club ::)

So once Sam Kerridge and Luke Brown are named round one I want an apology!

Laddy, apologies if I write an essay here or use big words - I'll do my best to keep it down as it's pretty clear that the more you right, the more wrong you are :/. It shouldn't take long to dismantle your argument anyway.

Firstly, let's point out the logical fallacies you've inferred. Firstly, the straw man. All good and well refuting me, but refute what I've actually said. There's no point ignoring the point I make, then presenting an alternate (yet unattributable to me) point and attacking that. If I didn't say it, arguing it is pointless, isn't it? I'll provide some evidence.

Stop being such a smart ass, of course i've seen these guys play and I thing you are a little nit right and mostly wrong, next you'll say Luke Brown can't slot into the back pocket?

If you look at my post - Luke Brown was never mentioned. All of a sudden you've pre-empted a comment you believed I've made.

So once Sam Kerridge and Luke Brown are named round one I want an apology!

And now I've said it. Great. (I actually didn't).

I believe Brown will play in round one. I think he's a good player. Miracle eh? I actually rate a Crow player. He's one of many. Not one of ALL, however.

That's just one example of you fabricating something I've said and then attack it.

That also classifies as poisoning the well, too.

Now I'll draw your attention to the ipse dixit. You're essentially expecting people to trust and believe your argument. You've pointed to a few examples of you being correct. I'm going to buy into it and trust in you that you in fact did say it, I have no interest in proving that wrong - however, these instances have no bearing on you now. Just because you were right once, people shouldn't take it in faith that you will be right again.

I'm going to assume that in the many posts you seem to have made here and the passion you exude regarding our club you've probably made plenty of outlandish predictions - and of course the ones you would have been wrong about have not been brought up (side note: yes, I am aware of the inherent hypocrisy of this last sentence after accusing you of logical fallacies).

Then we've got both ad lapidem and ignoratio elenchi. You've essentially dismissed everything I've said as absurd, but not given any sort of evidence as to how it's absurd, instead pointing to your record as to why it's true. You're not even giving reasons for my argument being wrong or yours right, only asking it to be accepted due to your track record. Please, I'd love to hear why I'm wrong... or even why I'm right. And then too, what you've presented may even be true - but it doesn't actually address the topic at hand, or the argument you seem to have created.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Nonetheless, now that I've explained to you how to actually argue/debate/prove something wrong or right, I'll attempt to explain why I think you're wrong.

Smith and Wright are developing, players as they mature move into stronger roles for their club they don't just keep playing the same role every year, Smith is far more than a back pocket sorry but you are wrong

It seems to me that you're suggesting that no matter how competent a small back Smith is, if he's a good player he belongs in the midfield. If I've interpreted wrong, do correct me. I think this is flawed for a few reasons

- We've already got an abundance of good to elite midfielders, both current and coming through
- We don't have an abundance of good small backs, nor are there many youngsters coming through
- It is easier to rack up statistics from the midfield. Not everyone who excels in a small forward/back position needs to go there.

At the moment, we need small defenders... Smith is competent there, and therefore should play there. If our shortage alleviates, then perhaps an alternate path for Smith may be looked at. The notion that every small back that shows talent should go into the midfield is ridiculous too. Imagine Birchall, Enright, Duigan, Maxwell, Hunt, Newman, Hurn, Harbrow etc. playing full time midfield; the side would be left short in defence most likely. Small positions are hard to fill, once we're onto a good thing, hold onto it! I'd much prefer a great small back than a great midfielder, as small backs of a high level are hard to find. Smith looks like being that.

I also have no idea what facets of his game lend to being a better midfielder than defender, but each to his own.

Also, regarding Kerridge - I said I'd be surprised if he became a passable regular. If he starts in round one, I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be surprised if he maintained that spot as he hasn't shown he's up to the standard.

Regarding Grigg - I'm sure if he were any good he'd be playing SANFL league. He'd need to jump 2 levels quick smart to even think about playing AFL. He was awful with the ball in hand when I saw him numerous times anyway.

Even inferring that Smith is 'more than a back pocket' is so wrong. Back Pocket isn't an inferior position, it's a great one as good BPs are so hard to find. If Smith holds down the back pocket I'd be stoked, as we'd be one up on plenty of sides in actually having a passable one.

We'll have to wait and see. I just think you've got high hopes, much too high.

[Sapientia]

I'll just share this little pearl of wisdom for all as well.

Calling me deluded :o When it comes to watching young crows talant develop I am usually right so get of your high horse buddy ;)

Anyone can claim anything, doesn't make it true :P

There we have it ladies and gentlemen.

[Ziplock]

Wtf we are just going to believe some moron who pops up claiming to know everything ::)

Get stuffed, you're gonna believe some idiot because he thinks he can write an essay ::)

Anyone can claim anything, doesn't make it true :P

Btw I don't care if you choose not to heed my words, makes it easy for me when a Kerridge is named

Or have we all forgotten Sammy Shaw? How I tried to tell everyone to get on him as the Crows favored him? (don't pretend I didn't)

Or when I tried to warn all others that Adelaide players such as Thommo would not be rested? Well they weren't, only the tired Sloane was rested, many seemed to think players would be rested but I said they won't be! So was I right then?

But you're right I know nothing about the Adelaide footrball club ::)

So once Sam Kerridge and Luke Brown are named round one I want an apology!

to be fair, you also emphatically said how adelaide were going to smash sydney in the qualifying final, and how they were going to beat hawthorn in the prelim....

Sapienta- tbag is insanely one eyed on everything south australian, and assumes he is always correct, and people should always listen to him. It's frustrating everytime :P

[Sapientia]

Well I'm going to take the bait everytime so I'm probably going to be even more frustrating :P