Connecticut

[Ziplock]

yeah I've heard about that town, it's pretty interesting :P

[Capper]

I don't know how many of you follow the NFL or if you heard this story about a fortnight ago. I will tell it the way i heard it.

If you don't like hearing details of the suicides then don't continue reading. I will take down this post if required

The way i heard it
Jovan Belcher, line backer for Kansas City Chiefs was involved in a shooting and he and his girlfriend were pronounced dead, leaving their 3 month year old with out parents.

Reports then came in describing it as an apparent murder suicide attempt, with no details of who the shooter was.

After watching the first half of the Eagles v Giants game i then found out that Belcher had had an argument with his girlfriend and it had become a heated argument. Belcher then Shot and killed his girlfriend before fleeing and speeding to the Kansas City Stadiuim where the Chiefs were to host the Carolina Panthers the next day. It was then reported that Belcher shot himself in front of the Coach and General manager of the team. The Chiefs coach made a short statement saying "i dont wish to talk about what happened or what i saw. The main focus is that little girl, who will now grow up not knowing who her parents were." http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000104340/Romeo-Crennel-It-was-a-total-team-victory

I sat there amazed at the information that i had just heard. How can an argument between a couple become so heated that a weapon let alone a gun be produced. It was best summed up by the half time reporter of the Eagles/Giants game
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/12/03/nbcs_bob_costas_goes_on_gun_control_rant_about_nfl_players_murder-suicide.html

I just went searching for a link and found out that he speed through the security check point at the stadium and ran in to the head quarters of the Chiefs. With security chasing him, he thankwed the Coach and general manager for giving him the chance to play before stepping awat and pulling the trigger
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jovan-belcher-kansas-city-chiefs-kills-self-suicide-kills-girlfriend-team-facility-120112

[Nails]

I heard it tabs... but just not sure your point on posting it other than guns were used?

Gun use isn't really relevant to it though. It's a very sad story, but take out guns and you can replace it with anything. He could've killed his wife with a frying pan and slit his throat w/ a kitchen knife etc.

The fact he used guns isn't really relevant to guns being legal or not IMO.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

[Capper]

I heard it tabs... but just not sure your point on posting it other than guns were used?

Gun use isn't really relevant to it though. It's a very sad story, but take out guns and you can replace it with anything. He could've killed his wife with a frying pan and slit his throat w/ a kitchen knife etc.

The fact he used guns isn't really relevant to guns being legal or not IMO.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

this link http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/12/03/nbcs_bob_costas_goes_on_gun_control_rant_about_nfl_players_murder-suicide.html
A very good argument against gun ownership, also there are plenty of articles out there saying he should not have said this

[kilbluff1985]

that's true Nails but i think people prefer guns as they think it is quick and easier as opposed to not using a gun and the result being delayed somewhat

not having the use of guns i believe will deter some people

[Ziplock]

tighter gun laws would just mean that guns are harder to obtain- people with guns atm would still have them- if they were going to introduce them, you'd probs have a huge majority of americans stock up before the laws came in :P

[Grazz]

When i first saw it on the news yesterday my granddaughter was here, shes about a year off the average age of the children that were shot. I was looking at her and listening to what was being said and described and i'm not ashamed at all to say my eyes filled with tears. The thought of her being a victim to something like that was just so over powering. Words, what words i have no words to express to you let alone the parents that have lost what can only be described as the most innocent of victims, children. I'm so sorry this happened just doesn't seem anywhere near good enough for the loss of 20 kids aged between 5 and 6. My heart bleeds for them.

The other tragedy in this is it will change nothing about the gun problem in the USA, no Government will take on the National Rifle Association, they are immensely powerful and contribute so many millions to campaign funds in the States. Anyone who dared try to change that would be shouted down and more than likely assassinated for daring to suggest that automatic weapons be confiscated and taken off the market and no longer be for sale. Its in their constitution the right to bare arms and they will protect that right to the death make no mistake. The American mentality and guns is something hard to get your head around as to how they feel about it. I struggle to find a comparison of something we as Australians love as dearly to compare it to their right to bare arms. I mean you can walk into some banks in the USA and for opening up a new account they will give you a lever action Winchester rifle, here we get a Humphrey B Bear money box at best.

After Port Arthur occurred here the country was up in arms and said enough is enough and off the back of the peoples emotion John Howard was able to remove alot of weapons from the public and arms dealers because we the people as a majority wanted it, this will not happen in the USA where there are roughly nine guns per family on average. Not every family owns a gun either so some families/people have 30 40 50 guns of all kinds, fully automatic assault rifles from Ouzzies to M16's you name it they can buy it. 300 plus million people in the USA work out how many guns there would be. They put some figures up last night on tv regarding gun related murders around the world and i was surprised to see Canada only 144 when America was 9000+, 4th on the list but number 1 in the modern western world. More police officers are shot and killed in the states every year than Australia has lost in total since 1982. The other tragedy is this will change nothing, within a few weeks this will all die down only to be repeated again and again in the future, more mass shootings of adults, students and small children time and time again the world will bare witness to the senseless slayings that will continue because nobody has the balls to stand up to the NRA. God help them.

I'm not against anyone being able to own a gun for protection, if i lived in the States id want a gun for protection i think but what is absolutely absurd is the sort of weapons that can be purchased, the problem is so big now i have huge concerns it can ever  be corrected. If you have a gun amnesty such as we did only the innocent will hand in their weapons the bad guys will keep theirs but does that mean that you dont even try to rid your country of these soughts of weapons and ban the sale of them in the future. I feel the bigger crime is to do nothing and ive owned  some bad ass guns, an M1 a SKS type 56 Chinese assault rifle which isnt really an assault rifle but was marketed as such. I had no problem giving them up as i knew i really didnt have a need for the guns or was worried a buffalo or lion was going to threaten my family in SA. If your a good enough shot one bullet in a large calibre bolt action rifle is sufficient i didnt really need ten in the SKS or 15 for the M1, basically i didnt need these guns or really want them in the house with the kids getting older, there really is no need to own these kind of weapons. Large calibre fully and semi automatic weapons do not belong in the public domain. The public shouldnt have access to better weapons than their police force. Who the hell needs a 50 cal rifle that can shoot through a concrete wall and kill a target.

[AFEV]

There is really no point in debating gun laws in America.

The right to keep and bear arms is in their constitution meaning changing it would require a referendum. Because the southern states of America are some of the most backwards parts of the first world it will never happen.

Regardless, people like this will always find ways of attaining a firearm. Mental instability is the sole common factor in instances like this, so shouldn't we really be focusing on mental health issues instead...Something that we can actually impact. :-\

[Ziplock]

9 per family?

that seems... excessive...

unless it's including military firearms?

I just looked it up grazz- it's
0.9 guns per person
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/28/us-world-firearms-idUSL2834893820070828

presuming the average family size is about 5, that's 4.5 guns per family

[Grazz]

There is really no point in debating gun laws in America.

The right to keep and bear arms is in their constitution meaning changing it would require a referendum. Because the southern states of America are some of the most backwards parts of the first world it will never happen.

Regardless, people like this will always find ways of attaining a firearm. Mental instability is the sole common factor in instances like this, so shouldn't we really be focusing on mental health issues instead...Something that we can actually impact. :-\

Cant argue with you there Sid, mental health is certainly an issue that needs more attention here and in the states. Its a sad reflection on Goverments the little that is spent in this area to help those afflicted with mental issues and the continual issues family's have in trying to seek help for a family member because they fear they will harm themselves or someone else and all to often see them fall through the gaps and out into the public where the inevitable happens.

[Nails]

The point is you can ban guns all you want, the real criminals who still want to get a gun to kill someone will. It'll just be black market dealings, but still very available. It'll just prevent those who want to defend themselves from having guns.

The baddies will have 'em the goodies will lose 'em.

The world needs to change, not guns to be banned. But people, human society won't change. Since the dawn of time people have killed people, guns just made it easier. It's a societal shift, we'd need everyone to get along in the world which would never happen.

but yeah, don't ban guns imo :X

[Grazz]

9 per family?

that seems... excessive...

unless it's including military firearms?

I just looked it up grazz- it's
0.9 guns per person
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/28/us-world-firearms-idUSL2834893820070828

presuming the average family size is about 5, that's 4.5 guns per family

The stats i heard were an estimation of guns registered and unregistered (Illegal) and included the 9 million of illegal citizens in the states at the time. This i heard some years back so i can only imagine it is actually worse in 2012 as the statistics would have to of increased with population and the now 12 million illegals in the States.

Edit: Todays stats show through the link you put up 90 guns per 100 people, these are just the registered weapons and dont take into account unregitered (illegaly owned) and the 12 million illegals now in the States, honestly cant remember mate wether Military weapons were included, from memory i dont believe they were but was approx 5-6 years ago. 5 or 9 per family its alot of guns. :o

[Grazz]

The point is you can ban guns all you want, the real criminals who still want to get a gun to kill someone will. It'll just be black market dealings, but still very available. It'll just prevent those who want to defend themselves from having guns.

The baddies will have 'em the goodies will lose 'em.

The world needs to change, not guns to be banned. But people, human society won't change. Since the dawn of time people have killed people, guns just made it easier. It's a societal shift, we'd need everyone to get along in the world which would never happen.

but yeah, don't ban guns imo :X

I don't think its necessary to ban guns entirely either and think that's just an over reaction. As you say and it is very true "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". What i do think is necessary is to ban fully and semi automatic rifles with both small and high volume clips. There's no need to have these weapons. By enlarge criminals don't go around committing mass murder, its more often than not someone who is unstable that has access to a family members gun cabinet, a lot of the people who commit these crimes have never been in trouble with the law or commited serious offences prior to committing these crimes. Martin Bryant for example here in Australia had no dealings with the police prior to Port Aurthur from memory. I hope that makes sense as obviously once you commit mass murder your a criminal but your average Joe Blow criminal doesnt run around killing large volumes of people with fully automatic weapons as i said hope that makes sense and you see the point im trying to make.

[Mailman the 2nd]

I would've thought that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is the most elementary and stupid thing to say.

Tanks dont kill people, people kill people

Landmines don't kill people, people kill people

Biological warfare doesn't kill people, people kill people

ahhh, multiple shootings happen every 5 days in america on average.

so, technically once a week :P

that being said, most of those countries/ provinces you're talking about are 3rd world shower hole dictatorships, not a first world democracy... :/

Of course I'm talking about the 3rd world provinces that have shootings on this magnitude every week.

Not all of them have dictatorships, not all of them are bad places but as soon as "1st world people" realise that these sort of horrors can occur on a daily basis (occasionally by their own hand) then something decent might happen

Not that it matters, because Americans are basically neanderthals   

[nas]

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."