VFL vs SANFL vs WAFL

[TeeJay]

Thankyou sid, im glad you came up with an honest and educated response with some proof and stats to back up your knowledge.
Tbag could maybe take a leaf out of your book but he only bases his opinions on what he thinks must be right.
You're back peddling a little sid I must say. You made out as if the sanfl and wafl were as strong as the vfl up untill the 70's, now you are saying the vfl was dominant for the vast majority of the century. You're right, it was. There is nothing in the history books to ever suggest that the vfl wasn't always the dominant league. As I said earlier there may have been the odd season here or there that the other leagues were very close but for almost the entirity of Australian rules, the VFL has been dominant.

Maybe I was a tad harsh suggesting that the sanfl players cant be graded along side the vfl greats. I have no doubt there are some of the games best players that came from those leagues. I just find it a lot harder to judge them when they werent playing in the best league.

[AFEV]

Thankyou sid, im glad you came up with an honest and educated response with some proof and stats to back up your knowledge.
Tbag could maybe take a leaf out of your book but he only bases his opinions on what he thinks must be right.
You're back peddling a little sid I must say. You made out as if the sanfl and wafl were as strong as the vfl up untill the 70's, now you are saying the vfl was dominant for the vast majority of the century. You're right, it was. There is nothing in the history books to ever suggest that the vfl wasn't always the dominant league. As I said earlier there may have been the odd season here or there that the other leagues were very close but for almost the entirity of Australian rules, the VFL has been dominant.

Maybe I was a tad harsh suggesting that the sanfl players cant be graded along side the vfl greats. I have no doubt there are some of the games best players that came from those leagues. I just find it a lot harder to judge them when they werent playing in the best league.

Ah, that's probably why we're disagreeing. Of course it is ludicrous to say that the SANFL/WANFL were as strong as the VFL up until 1970, and sorry if it came off as me saying that.

Just saying there were periods where they were as if not stronger than the VFL. They weren't particularly common but enough so that the difference of quality isn't great enough to discount the careers of some of the greats. :)

[TeeJay]

You can pretend that your bureaurocrartic statistics mean something but again you'd be wrong, going by stats to prove pro 1990 lol I thought you were stupid ::) Are you not aware that good players now play in the AFL ???

Life is not about facts, stats and proof of anything no.

Life is about discussion, relationship, communication, things are measured by opinion and folk law not stats and records. The greatest gift we have is communication, the ability to relate and communtcate, these are lifes fundamentles, it is what history is based on

You can believe in your stats and record books all you want but it's the opinions of people that count, to be able to discuss the events with your fellow man. That's what brings life!

So stats and records mean absolutly nothing tbag and opinions mean everything?
You are actually retarted arent you....

Opinions and "folk law" grow and change over time the more the stories are told! Someone that caught a fish the size of there arm and in 50 years time the story says "the fish was 5 meters long" its a story mate! If you take the measurement of the fish its written down in the record books forever. Its fact!
Is the written measurement of the fish right or the peoples stories about how big it was??
You didnt see ken farmer play, you didnt see the sanfl or vfl before the 70's so you dont know what it was like. All you have is the record books and peoples opinions. The people you call "experts" that have said the sanfl was just as good as the vfl are obviously wrong! Because there is proof written down infront of your moronic head for you to see that they are wrong. Just because they are from s.a or played in the sanfl doesnt make there opinion any more valid than anyones. It cant have been better or over the 100 years sa would have broke even with vic inhe games they played, not be DOMINATED.
Victoria has always had a much larger population amd bigger finance for the vfl so unless you are suggesting that south australians are genetically better bred for football then you have no argument, sorry mate

[TeeJay]

Thankyou sid, im glad you came up with an honest and educated response with some proof and stats to back up your knowledge.
Tbag could maybe take a leaf out of your book but he only bases his opinions on what he thinks must be right.
You're back peddling a little sid I must say. You made out as if the sanfl and wafl were as strong as the vfl up untill the 70's, now you are saying the vfl was dominant for the vast majority of the century. You're right, it was. There is nothing in the history books to ever suggest that the vfl wasn't always the dominant league. As I said earlier there may have been the odd season here or there that the other leagues were very close but for almost the entirity of Australian rules, the VFL has been dominant.

Maybe I was a tad harsh suggesting that the sanfl players cant be graded along side the vfl greats. I have no doubt there are some of the games best players that came from those leagues. I just find it a lot harder to judge them when they werent playing in the best league.

Ah, that's probably why we're disagreeing. Of course it is ludicrous to say that the SANFL/WANFL were as strong as the VFL up until 1970, and sorry if it came off as me saying that.

Just saying there were periods where they were as if not stronger than the VFL. They weren't particularly common but enough so that the difference of quality isn't great enough to discount the careers of some of the greats. :)

Thanks for clearing that up sid, probably doesn't help when you have a nuff nuff like tbag batting on your side with his bias and opinionated garbage that has no merrit to it.
Im sure deep down he's conceeded that he is wrong. If not then im actually concerned with his well being and ability to grasp a simple series of facts.

[tbagrocks]

Keep insulting people if you like it just makes you a flowering White Goodman, which in it's self is moronic. You still don't get it you must be retarded ::) You cannot say a league is better based on results of state games, that's just not an accurite measure, which you seem so keen on basing all your opinions based on facts. I'm smarter than you'll ever be and one day you might learn how to relate to people, then you will see that relationships is actually what matters, not the measure or "proof" of somethings existence.

If it's your goal in life to try and demean anyone who you think is of less intelligence than yourself well good luck to you, of course that just makes you a bully, and nobody likes a bully ;)

[TeeJay]

Keep insulting people if you like it just makes you a flowering White Goodman, which in it's self is moronic. You still don't get it you must be retarded ::) You cannot say a league is better based on results of state games, that's just not an accurite measure, which you seem so keen on basing all your opinions based on facts. I'm smarter than you'll ever be and one day you might learn how to relate to people, then you will see that relationships is actually what matters, not the measure or "proof" of somethings existence.

If it's your goal in life to try and demean anyone who you think is of less intelligence than yourself well good luck to you, of course that just makes you a bully, and nobody likes a bully ;)

im not just basing it on state games (even though thats the only way it really can be measured) im also basing it on the fact that vic has always had 5 times the population of s.a and a larger finance in the vfl league. They are plain as day facts ontop of the fact that vic dominated s.a for 100 years in state of origin. Then opinion is split 50/50 which is all you have.
I cant believe I have to repeat myself to you so many times and you still cant grasp it? I would have more luck convincing every member of fanfooty that you're not a bias opinionated tosser. No one would ever believe it.

[tbagrocks]

Yeah you're right, no one will believe you! Because you have no class, you have proven that you yourself are the tosser in that you feel the need to call anyone who you don't agree with an idiot or a moron, I'm simply calling you on it and if that makes me a tosser so be it, but I will not stand by while you ungracefully go about insulting everyone.

I never said the VFL has not been the best league for most of the century, but that's just it, "most"

[TeeJay]

Yeah you're right, no one will believe you! Because you have no class, you have proven that you yourself are the tosser in that you feel the need to call anyone who you don't agree with an idiot or a moron, I'm simply calling you on it and if that makes me a tosser so be it, but I will not stand by while you ungracefully go about insulting everyone.

I never said the VFL has not been the best league for most of the century, but that's just it, "most"

Im not insulting everyone? Ive insulted YOU and you've insulted ME. I have no reason to insult anyone else, as they are capable of a reasonable debate and take on board the facts that I put forward and admit the areas they were perhaps wrong in. You on the other hand get yourself so deep into a debate without realizing when you're wrong and you're too stubborn to admit when you got it wrong so you just keep digging and coming up with new crap to pile ontop of your already flawed argument.

Yes tbag, you have said exactly that you dont think the vfl was the best league for most of the century. Thats what this whole debate was about.. I did say most, if not the entire century from the start. Dont back peddel now

[tbagrocks]

Just how was I wrong? For me to admit a mistake I must first have made one ??? I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove here, I gave you some facts based on what has happened in other sports but you seem to think that some how footy is different :-\ You certainly won't admit to any wrong so how are you less bias than what I have said? ??? Do we just assume you are right because you said it therefore it must be true? This would make you perfect and you have already proven that you're not.

[TeeJay]

This is the point that I am arguing. Read it carefully!
Between 1900-1990 the vfl was the dominant football league in Australia. The sanfl may have had seasons or periods here and there where they were close in comparrison, but for the vast majority, the vfl was dominant and the best league due to the states much bigger population, talent pool and funding of the league that attracted other players from outside the state. The dominance can be seen in the one sided record victoria had over s.a and w.a state games for over 100 years.

Can you read that and understand it tbag? Or is it just too much for you to wrap your head around?

I have admited I was maybe to harsh about sanfl greats being graded alongside vfl greats. I just think its harder to do because they didnt play in the best league. Thats not unreasonable, thats my opinion and most peoples and thats why the sanfl players arent in the AFL record books aswell.
Thats the only personal opinion I have given. The rest is fact. All you have given is opinion with no fact. Do you understand the difference?

[tbagrocks]

I am mostly agreeing, however when I copared the VFL and SANFL to that of Australian and English cricket, you simply would not take the point, it is easy to say population and money should make a league better but as I have been trying to point out that is not always the case, statistics and facts can be floored which I have also proven but again that was simply dismissed.

I am all for proving things with stats but you need to understand that they can be misleading for example, who was the better batsman over the whole career Mark or Steve Waugh? Again it comes down to opinion and I think people will say Mark was the more gifted batsman however Steve's ave was higher, does that mean set in stone Steve was better? he probably was but opinions will be divided. Does that then make me an idiot if I say Mark was better because I like the way he played?

That's all I'm saying and I have grown bored of this now.

[TeeJay]

Im seriously that far over this and im not going to have a debate with you about cricket now but your examples arent relevant as it is 2 different countries, 2 different demographics, 2 different genetics, opportunities etc in a world aport played by 11 people.
Im glad we agree that the VFL was the dominant league for the majority allbeit you thinking it was an even match more often than I do. Ill delete this thread so I dont have the temptation of it going on any longer. I dont think I could bare it

[Ziplock]

You can pretend that your bureaurocrartic statistics mean something but again you'd be wrong, going by stats to prove pro 1990 lol I thought you were stupid ::) Are you not aware that good players now play in the AFL ???

Life is not about facts, stats and proof of anything no.

Life is about discussion, relationship, communication, things are measured by opinion and folk law not stats and records. The greatest gift we have is communication, the ability to relate and communtcate, these are lifes fundamentles, it is what history is based on

You can believe in your stats and record books all you want but it's the opinions of people that count, to be able to discuss the events with your fellow man. That's what brings life!

firstly- no.

I mean you can argue all that bs, but stats, mathematics and science are the things that afford us most of the comfort we have today, unless you dont use technology?

Stats mean a lot- 'Hitler killed some jews'
'Hitler killed 6 million jews'

Massive difference.

I'm not going to argue it though, because you're so wrong that it's pointless to argue it.

Sid- I've said, many, many times, that SANFL/ WAFL would have produced great players too. Possibly even the greatest player, hypothetically. That being said, VFL would have been churning out great players at a far faster rate than SANFL and WAFL.

Tbag doesn't have the ability to look past his bias and comprehend this though.

Whether that's a fault in his personality, or just a lack of intelligence, I don't know. But I'd be pretty sure it's one of them.

Tbag- that's because your comparison on an international level is invalid.

as are your individual comparison.

we're talking about evenly distributed populations number in the millions, not individuals or teams in completely different situations. Anyone with even a vague understanding of how statistics works would understand this- not even necessarily someone who's studied it, it's really intuitive.

[CrowsFan]

Can't be bothered entering in to the debate as I have got no clue about how strong any leagues were ever and couldn't care less really, but just going to bring up a point about the whole population theory. If having a bigger population indicates better success why is it in the domestic cricket competitions Tasmania has been so successful recently when they would have the smallest population of any of the states?

In the last 8 seasons Tasmania has won the one day league 3 times and been runner up twice (the last 2 years), and won the 4 day competition twice and runner up once (last season)? They have the smallest population so surely they should be coming last every year ;)

[Justin Bieber]

Haven't read this topic. But I voted VFL.