Zaharakis - update page 4

[Fenno]

ok was a bit harsh I know many nurses and I refer to them the same way as a joke. Also Wikipedia is a joke when it comes to information and should never ever be a source. My mrs is a fully qualified physio working in a hospital so I would follow what she says over what Wikipedia says.

I am also sorry to say Nurses have nothing to do with rehab. Thats the physios job. Nurses are there to do the jobs the doctors don't want to do.

[Windigo]

On a brighter note. You coming back for 2012 champs league FeNOor FenYES.

[Fenno]

Im a yes

[Ziplock]

I am also sorry to say Nurses have nothing to do with rehab. Thats the physios job. Nurses are there to do the jobs the doctors don't want to do.

I know, I said that, if you read my post a little more carefully :P

[Fenno]

You are correct but. You also wrong in saying Nurses are more important overall because they are not. A Doctor can do everything a nurse can do but a Doctor can't do what a Physio can do. So You can't say a Nurse is more important.

[Ziplock]

I'm saying nurses are more important because doctors won't do nurses jobs.

Physios are really important, but as it stands now, if all physios were to quit their jobs now, society would survive without huge repercussions.

If all nurses were to quit their job now however, we would have a completely different social catastrophe.

[Fenno]

Physios are paid more than nurses for a reason because they are more important, You have to get basicly the same score to get into Physio as Medicine because it is a skilled field that you don't want any half brain doing. If all the nurses quit the doctors could do what the nurses were doing even though they don't want to. But if all the physios were to quit there would be nobody able to do their job.

You do know there are many types of physio not just rehab and sports don't you?

[Ziplock]

no, there wouldn't be physically enough doctors to do nurses jobs.

here's what would happen if nurses quit
1) there would not be enough doctors to initially cover the workload, the hospitals would be severely understaffed (to almost unimaginable means), many people would not receive adequate treatment when hospitalised, would have slower responses to influxes of patients, and a lot of people would die
2) in order to get more doctors to come into the workforce, the atar requirement would need to be lowered significantly, and probably the time spent training and at uni, or it would be 8 years with the above health care situation
3) the number of doctors would ,eventually, be equal to the number of nurses originally working. However, hospitals couldn't afford to pay that many doctors (since a doctors average wage is substantially higher than a nurses). There are two possibilities here- a) either there would be more cost to the government and public for health care (and a lot more, keep in mind the number of nurses relative to doctors), or more likely b) the wage of doctors would be decreased substantially.

in this case we have two scenarios occurring.

4a) two possibilities, either the governments starts forking out a lot of money, gained by substantially raising money, or our social public healthcare benefits decrease, and people have to pay privately for treatment. In either scenario Australians lose substantial amount of money, and lower the quality of their life- in the second scenario, there are even more extreme cases as the lower income earners will not be able to afford health care.

4b) Wages are decreased. The minimum requirement to become a doctor has already been decreased substantially (let's say from something like 99+ at universities such as Melbourne, Sydney, ANU, UNSW to something like low 90s), but these marks are still quite high- with lower wages, medicine becomes a far less attractive option to many people, who can by this time, probably earn more money in careers such as engineering. So in order to keep the flow of doctors coming in to man our hospital staff, one again the minimum requirements for becoming a doctor are decreased again, probably to a HSC score around low 80s, to maintain the number necessary. By this point, we have doctors who have comparatively substandard intelligence who hold our general publics safety and well being in their hands.

Doctors in some form or another, have been around for millennia. Proper physio on the otherhand, was only first documented in the 1800s. Ironically in this discussion, the 4 founder of physio in britain were actually nurses :P

Don't get me wrong, physiotherapy is really important, can be used in a lot of different areas, from hearts to feet (although, you may correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think the most common would be those dealing with rehab and sporting injuries). Fact is though, people survived for thousands of years without it, in some circumstances in comfortable living eras. If every physio were to quit, if it came down to it, doctors and the like could take over their job, you would have a relatively similar situation to the one ascribed above, but to a far lesser degree.

Hopefully though, we'll never see a world where either nurses or physio simultaneously quit, or we would be in real trouble

[TheMailman]

no, there wouldn't be physically enough doctors to do nurses jobs.

here's what would happen if nurses quit
1) there would not be enough doctors to initially cover the workload, the hospitals would be severely understaffed (to almost unimaginable means), many people would not receive adequate treatment when hospitalised, would have slower responses to influxes of patients, and a lot of people would die
2) in order to get more doctors to come into the workforce, the atar requirement would need to be lowered significantly, and probably the time spent training and at uni, or it would be 8 years with the above health care situation
3) the number of doctors would ,eventually, be equal to the number of nurses originally working. However, hospitals couldn't afford to pay that many doctors (since a doctors average wage is substantially higher than a nurses). There are two possibilities here- a) either there would be more cost to the government and public for health care (and a lot more, keep in mind the number of nurses relative to doctors), or more likely b) the wage of doctors would be decreased substantially.

in this case we have two scenarios occurring.

4a) two possibilities, either the governments starts forking out a lot of money, gained by substantially raising money, or our social public healthcare benefits decrease, and people have to pay privately for treatment. In either scenario Australians lose substantial amount of money, and lower the quality of their life- in the second scenario, there are even more extreme cases as the lower income earners will not be able to afford health care.

4b) Wages are decreased. The minimum requirement to become a doctor has already been decreased substantially (let's say from something like 99+ at universities such as Melbourne, Sydney, ANU, UNSW to something like low 90s), but these marks are still quite high- with lower wages, medicine becomes a far less attractive option to many people, who can by this time, probably earn more money in careers such as engineering. So in order to keep the flow of doctors coming in to man our hospital staff, one again the minimum requirements for becoming a doctor are decreased again, probably to a HSC score around low 80s, to maintain the number necessary. By this point, we have doctors who have comparatively substandard intelligence who hold our general publics safety and well being in their hands.

Doctors in some form or another, have been around for millennia. Proper physio on the otherhand, was only first documented in the 1800s. Ironically in this discussion, the 4 founder of physio in britain were actually nurses :P

Don't get me wrong, physiotherapy is really important, can be used in a lot of different areas, from hearts to feet (although, you may correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think the most common would be those dealing with rehab and sporting injuries). Fact is though, people survived for thousands of years without it, in some circumstances in comfortable living eras. If every physio were to quit, if it came down to it, doctors and the like could take over their job, you would have a relatively similar situation to the one ascribed above, but to a far lesser degree.

Hopefully though, we'll never see a world where either nurses or physio simultaneously quit, or we would be in real trouble

Going to chime in with a pointless +1

[picker_man]

1+ just for the effort ziplock, and i dont agree with a word Fenno said.
p.s I wish nurses knew who fenno was next time he went to hospital............

[Windigo]

Physios? Nurses?

Apples & Oranges.

Physio's are great. Really helped me when I put "My Neck Out of Place."

Do we really need to argue.  ;)

[Ziplock]

on the flip side, were not that helpful when I ripped the cartilage in my knees.

[TheMailman]

on the flip side, were not that helpful when I ripped the cartilage in my knees.

I doubt many things are going to be helpful when you rip cartliage

[Ziplock]

but getting told to do squats certainly doesn't help :P

[Fenno]

So you are having a huge rant because a physio didn't fix your problem?

and you are so wrong where you said that doctors could take over what a Physio does. My mrs sister is a doctor and when my mrs first started working in a hospital she said to her if a doctor tell you something physio related and you think something different trust your judgement because doctors really have no idea when it comes to something physio related. She also said unlike some doctors she makes friends with the nurses just so she doesn't have to do the crappy jobs herself