Super Coach & Dream Team The Difference [Players]

[Colliwobblers]

well awesome info guys seriously awesome, thats kind of what i thought but drummond who as a DT player starting out in SC would think to pick drummond, lucky it's early January so I have the time to work on My SC team because it seems it will take some working out.

Hopefuly this post doesnt open up a DTvSC ants nest tho healthy debating and conversation is not a bad thing if it does imo :)

[Usman]

It is true. Please check your facts before posting.

It is not true not all matches equal up to 3300, i also used to beleive this, but i now believe it is a guide to make all AFL matches  roughly the same despite the conditions and other variables. Champion data does not say "the points do not equal 3300 so lets just give this player a few extra points for nothing so it is an even number"

[itchytradefinger]

The truth is, all games equal somewhere between 3297 and 3303.  I'm calling that 3300.  There are no exceptions.

[Usman]

dont get me wrong im not saying that what you where saying is wrong im just saying its not ENTIRELY true not all matches equal 3300 thats the rough number which is achieved through scaling players stats IMO. nothing anyone has said so far on this has been wrong. but champion data do not award points for no reason and that is why not all games equall 3300 because the closest they could get by scalling players stats to 3300 was in between 3297 and 3303 the fundementals of the post is correct but as soon as people think "wait each game has to equal 3300 becuase that is the magic number,this game is different SC is a load of bull they just make it up as they go" i should have mentioned that when it is not entirely true i meant it is a small discrepancy to fit in with thier scaling formula.

[itchytradefinger]

a very, very small discrepancy!  Cheers mate, no worries. The 3300 pt rule is important to know about however as it's perhaps the biggest difference between SC and DT.

[meow meow]

Sauce Merrett gets a showerload of score in SC for spoils to advantage.

[charliesheen]

Sauce Merrett gets a showerload of score in SC for spoils to advantage.

I call it fisting his opponents.

[Colliwobblers]

Do you remember last year when WCE were playing the WB, and West Coast were up by 2pts and Dean Cox took a game saving? mark in the square, then moments later took a mark in the forward line and goaled sealing the game, WC won by 8pts.
Cox ended up on 213 S/C pts.

I was watching, "After the Bounce," the one on Fox, with Dunstall, Frawley.... and in their segment where they do the best S/C scorers, one of them mentioned that Cox got, (someting like,) 120 for the acts mentioned above, (2minute piece of play.)

Here's a link you may find useful Colli.

WOW ....  :o

http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-supercoach-scoring-system-is-a-scam

[LiveTheDream]

There is a 3300 point rule, but it's not set in stone.

Some explanation of the SC scoring system from one of Champion Data's statisticians Karl Jackson.

Enjoy:

We all know that a game-winning goal kicked at the death of a close game is worth a premium, but how does the weighting work in other situations? For instance, in a blowout (Think Ess v GC), do the actions from the first quarter receive a premium? What about a game that is tight until half time that blows out in the third?

KJ: The weighting is applied to everything that happens within a game. To put it basically, the more likely it is that the result of the match is going to change, the higher the weighting is. This works in both ways “ as time goes on in tight games, a player's actions become more important because the game is up for grabs, but as time goes on in blowout games, events are weighted down because the game is moving closer and closer to 'junk time'.

Now, as a particular case study â€" it's been asked, what exactly did Rioli do in round 9 to secure 100 points? 13 touches at a 77% efficiency rating including a goal and two goal assists in a 56 point win seems a little much, particularly when you have someone like Hodge, who scored 99 points off 10 more touches and 2 goals. Is there anything you can say that could shed some light on this example?

KJ: As for Rioli v Hodge “ Rioli's goal and two assists all came in the third quarter, which is when Hawthorn ran away with the game. With the margin at 18 points with four minutes to go in the third quarter, Cyril made a tackle, won the free kick and kicked the goal “a 30 second block that saw him get 19 points. Hawthorn went on to kick another four unanswered goals after Rioli's goal so that was when the game was most in the balance. Luke Hodge had six touches in the first 15 minutes of the third, but just 50% were effective. When Hawthorn were on their streak of five goals in a row, Hodge only had one touch and that was after they'd stretched the lead to 42 points, so he missed out on getting bumped up.

On a side note, I'll just highlight the fact that you can't compare the outputs of players in different games and expect their rankings to follow suit. Because of the 3300 point rule, a 25 disposal game in a tight, low-possession game could be worth the same as a 40 disposal game in a free-flowing contest. Likewise, a 10 goal game in a high scoring contest may be less valuable than a four goal return in a low scoring game. It avoids any bias towards a particular game style or weather conditions.

The other example that’s being asked about is Goddard from round 10- injured in the first quarter and yet his quarter-by-quarter scores went: 56 SC at qtr time 44 at half time and 51 at 3 qtr time and finally 57 at full time- I’m assuming it weighting his first quarter efforts so highly because the game blew out so far in the 1st, but an official word would be most appreciated!

KJ: The quarter time updates on the Herald Sun website take into account the 3300 point rule, but because of the fluctuations that happen within the game, they're always going to change. As the game blows out more and more, the first quarter gets pumped up because of the reduced value of actions later in the game. In a stock standard game you'd expect 25% of the ranking points to come from each quarter, but as an example, in that Fremantle v St Kilda game in Round 10, 39% of the points were won in the first quarter. This is what helped Goddard maintain his score. If it was tight all the way to the siren, his score would have dropped as the game went on.

[Usman]

Do you remember last year when WCE were playing the WB, and West Coast were up by 2pts and Dean Cox took a game saving? mark in the square, then moments later took a mark in the forward line and goaled sealing the game, WC won by 8pts.
Cox ended up on 213 S/C pts.

I was watching, "After the Bounce," the one on Fox, with Dunstall, Frawley.... and in their segment where they do the best S/C scorers, one of them mentioned that Cox got, (someting like,) 120 for the acts mentioned above, (2minute piece of play.)

Here's a link you may find useful Colli.

WOW .... 

http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-supercoach-scoring-system-is-a-scam

haha its not a scam its common sense, one AFL game should be equal to another AFL game that is the idea behind the bell curve which is what i meant by scaling. I believe champion data use a bell curve on all stats not just overall points scored by both teams. As for superstar status causing players to score big pointsfor no reason WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP. I have already mentioned the amount of highly rewarded stats judd gets because he does influencial things during a game. And as for cox scoring so high champion data do weight scoring for important moments as well, as mentioned by itchy. Meaning if its a blow out and one team is up by 10+ goals and say Dane Swan is already on 120 SC yet seems to do nothing in the last quarter he will still most likely score 150+ because they weight the first three quarters were he dominated more heavily. where as if it is a very close game and (ill use Swan again for the example) he is on 60 at 3 QT if he gets 10-15 effective possesions in the last quarter those will be heavily rewarded becuase the game was up for grabs.

[Usman]

Live the dream beat me to it

[Roy.G.Biv]

Do you remember last year when WCE were playing the WB, and West Coast were up by 2pts and Dean Cox took a game saving? mark in the square, then moments later took a mark in the forward line and goaled sealing the game, WC won by 8pts.
Cox ended up on 213 S/C pts.

I was watching, "After the Bounce," the one on Fox, with Dunstall, Frawley.... and in their segment where they do the best S/C scorers, one of them mentioned that Cox got, (someting like,) 120 for the acts mentioned above, (2minute piece of play.)

Here's a link you may find useful Colli.

WOW .... 

http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-supercoach-scoring-system-is-a-scam

haha its not a scam its common sense, one AFL game should be equal to another AFL game that is the idea behind the bell curve which is what i meant by scaling. I believe champion data use a bell curve on all stats not just overall points scored by both teams. As for superstar status causing players to score big pointsfor no reason WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP. I have already mentioned the amount of highly rewarded stats judd gets because he does influencial things during a game. And as for cox scoring so high champion data do weight scoring for important moments as well, as mentioned by itchy. Meaning if its a blow out and one team is up by 10+ goals and say Dane Swan is already on 120 SC yet seems to do nothing in the last quarter he will still most likely score 150+ because they weight the first three quarters were he dominated more heavily. where as if it is a very close game and (ill use Swan again for the example) he is on 60 at 3 QT if he gets 10-15 effective possesions in the last quarter those will be heavily rewarded becuase the game was up for grabs.

I totally agree with you!
The scam bit is just silly.
There were points in the article explaining the 3300pts.

At the end of the day, Supercoach, (from the admin p.o.v,) is about getting as many people (website hits,) as they can, so the points system they have in the rules are enough of a guide for your average "Joe Shmo," playing the game.

[Colliwobblers]

awesome info guys and it covers a lot of questions about SC compared to the basic DT.

I think i am a fan of watching the game and knowing how each player is going in DT terms, but full credit to SC i think the scoring system be it a scam or not is a lot better in rewarding the effective players.

It's not a matter of which do you prefer i think but each to his own. Me i'm going to play both and for the next month or so i'm going to look into who is a SC gun and why as i dont think you can take a great DT put it in SC and expect it to do any good, and that was what a lot of the reason I posted this was for

thanks again guys and feel free to post more info but I knew little of what you have stated in the post so thanks :) i dont like to be clueless.

[LiveTheDream]

DT = quantity  and  SC = quality

[Impromptu]

I have been in top 30 overall in 2011 both and I think both SC/DT have their purpose.

You just need to adapt to the rules of each game and admittingly, I believe there are flaws in both SC and DT.

The 3300 rule to me is important in SC because in the brownlow it's 3-2-1 and each game is 4 points.  You don't get 10 points per game by winning by 200 pointsm you still get 4. You don't get 10 brownlow votes for getting 60 possies.  But then again there are also flaws in SC for example a guy who kicks the winning goal, against a guy who has 30 possies.  On the DT side, you shouldn't get a kick for kicking it to an opponent etc etc.

My point is and just to re-iterate, I like both DT and SC and both have flaws as well as great scoring system.  Enjoy both.