Super Coach & Dream Team The Difference [Players]

[Colliwobblers]

DREAM TEAM & SUPERCOACH

{also posted identic post in DREAMTEAM/PLAYERS FORUM.}

Hi All, there are a few points I want to make here and I will lay out the different ways the both Dream Team and Supercoach award points to players during games. For those of us that play both games it's handy to know who are DT STUDS but SC SPUDS or the other way around.

Because of the way players are awarded points in the two different games and of course the obvious difference in player pricing certain players may be must haves for DT or must haves for SC but not both.

I see the obvious difference being the way Supercoach punishes bad use of the ball where Dream Team works purely off disposals be they effective or not. Meaning Supercoach players with few "effective" disposals can outscore players with many"ineffective" disposals. Where DT just rewards the most disposals.

Please feel free to expand on this and name any players that come to mind that are particularly one or the other.

Dream Team

Kick                            3 Points
Handball                    2 Points
Mark                            3 Points
Tackle                    4 Points
Free Kick For            1 Point
Free Kick Against        -3 Points
Hitout                    1 Point
Goal                            6 Points
Behind                    1 Point

Super Coach

Effective kick                                            4 Points
Ineffective kick                                            0 Points
Clanger kick                                           -8 Points
Effective Handball                                    2 Points
Ineffective handball                                    0 Points
Handball clanger                                     -6 Points
Handball receive                                     1 Point
Hardball get                                            4 Points
Loose-ball get                                            4 Points
Goal                                                            8 Points
Behind                                                    1 Point
Mark uncontested (maintaining possession)    1 Point
Mark contested (maintaining possession)       6 Points
Mark uncontested (from opposition)            4 Points
Mark contested (from opposition)                    8 Points
Tackles                                                    4 Points
Free kick for                                            4 Points
Free kick against                                           -6 Points
Hitout to Advantage                                    3 Points

[FisherSaints]

Can't think of any right now

[LiveTheDream]

judd, dal santo and newman are a couple that come to mind. none set the world on fire in DT but they are among the cream of the crop SC wise

[coconut52]

shannon hurn would be one, i think one year in DT sylvia was worth more than ablett

[Colliwobblers]

judd, dal santo and newman are a couple that come to mind. none set the world on fire in DT but they are among the cream of the crop SC wise

True i think Judd will be top 3 supercoach mids and unpicked in dream team

[coolfugitiv0]

What about Stanton?
He racks up possesions, but isn't terribly effective.
I don't actually play DT, but I know I wouldn't pick him in SC. Some might consider him for DT.

[itchytradefinger]

SC points are weighted (adjusted), DT points are not.

The same number (3300) of points are awarded for each game in SC, whereas in DT the size of the pie can, and does, differ across each match.

There's heaps more but I'm too drunk to expand

[Colliwobblers]

SC points are weighted (adjusted), DT points are not.

The same number (3300) of points are awarded for each game in SC, whereas in DT the size of the pie can, and does, differ across each match.

There's heaps more but I'm too drunk to expand

Had no idea  - still ahve no idea- i'm working on getting drunk too, so another night maybe?? keen to work this out.

[itchytradefinger]

If you look at SC scores at 1/4 time, they're huge. I believe these are just 'pure' points, before any adjustments. Remember there are 60 odd acts that can score you SC points (unlike DT, not all are made public.  I think only 10 or so are, the ones you named above). By half time they have an idea of where the game is headed and start to adjust points accordingly.  So you see guys go from 60 points to only 65, even though their second quarter seemed almost as good as their first.

If a player does well to half time and the game is over by then, it matters little (certainly less) what he does in the second half. The bulk of the points have been awarded and his score will continue to trend north (even if he gets subbed out) because the contest is effectively over. The bulk of SC points are awarded when the contests up for grabs.  More often than not, this if the first half.

[Colliwobblers]

awesome so that makes a huge difference to players suitability for SC over DT.

Thanks for the info, I don't get live scoring updates on SC site never have only on the DT sight do not know why?? so had never noticed what you just pointed out.

[Usman]

SC points are weighted (adjusted), DT points are not.

- this is true

The same number (3300) of points are awarded for each game in SC, whereas in DT the size of the pie can, and does, differ across each match.

this is not entirely true but i beleive is used as a guide number to ensure that all games are represented equally so scoring for teams and players is not effected by playing conditions and other variables.

champion data formulises the SC scoring system and they do not release the full scoring system but it rewards good football acts which is why you see good footballers scoring very well in SC and not so much in DT sometimes.

Judd is a SC machine because he gets loads of clearences, inside 50's and assits which i can uncategorcally say, are heavily rewarded in SC along with rebound 50's and pressure acts such as tackles and spoils.

We may not know the exact scoring system, but those that complain that DT is better because you know the scoring system is, need to realise that SC rewards good football. (not to say DT doesnt) midfielders are obviously much higher scoring because the ball is in their area of play more often much the same as DT and this is the reason why good midfielders will generally outscore key defenders even if they have had a stellar game shutting a key forward down. (this is hard to measure)

Overall, in SC good players who sill manage to find the ball regularly are rewarded much the same as DT, but it also rewards those players that have big impact with lesser disposals like Newman, Hurn and the king of low possesion high SC scores Josh Drummond.

when picking for DT look for ball magnets that are always around the ball that do not handball to regularly for their disposals

when picking for SC there is probably a little mroe to consider but it depends how you look at it. you can say well clearances and hard in and under work is highly rewarded ill pick matthew boyd cause he gets the ball alot while doing alot of the grunt work and scoring big clearence numbers, but hang on these types of players disposal efficiency is way down compared to more outside midfielders. its a fine balance those players that do the gruntwork as well as get alot of it and use it well like an Ablett or Pendles are absolute gold in SC. not bad in DT either mind you ;)

[itchytradefinger]

In a nutshell, DT scoring is basic and transparent, SC is not.  But it's true that DT rewards quantity of possessions and SC rewards quality. I've seen C Rioli get 16 possessions and end up with 160 SC points. On the flip side, I've seen M Boyd get 41 possies and end up with 100 odd SC points. Basically, SC is all about how damaging you are. DT just rewards the ball magnets.

[itchytradefinger]

SC points are weighted (adjusted), DT points are not.

- this is true

The same number (3300) of points are awarded for each game in SC, whereas in DT the size of the pie can, and does, differ across each match.

this is not entirely true but i beleive is used as a guide number to ensure that all games are represented equally so scoring for teams and players is not effected by playing conditions and other variables.

It is true. Please check your facts before posting.

[Roy.G.Biv]

Do you remember last year when WCE were playing the WB, and West Coast were up by 2pts and Dean Cox took a game saving? mark in the square, then moments later took a mark in the forward line and goaled sealing the game, WC won by 8pts.
Cox ended up on 213 S/C pts.

I was watching, "After the Bounce," the one on Fox, with Dunstall, Frawley.... and in their segment where they do the best S/C scorers, one of them mentioned that Cox got, (someting like,) 120 for the acts mentioned above, (2minute piece of play.)

Here's a link you may find useful Colli.


http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-supercoach-scoring-system-is-a-scam

[Usman]

If you look at SC scores at 1/4 time, they're huge. I believe these are just 'pure' points, before any adjustments. Remember there are 60 odd acts that can score you SC points (unlike DT, not all are made public.  I think only 10 or so are, the ones you named above). By half time they have an idea of where the game is headed and start to adjust points accordingly.  So you see guys go from 60 points to only 65, even though their second quarter seemed almost as good as their first.

If a player does well to half time and the game is over by then, it matters little (certainly less) what he does in the second half. The bulk of the points have been awarded and his score will continue to trend north (even if he gets subbed out) because the contest is effectively over. The bulk of SC points are awarded when the contests up for grabs.  More often than not, this if the first half.

this is also a good point, but i also think champion data rewards acts to scale. So if someone gets 30 posessions in a game where no-one else gets above 20 that will be more highly rewarded, and this could be the case for some high 1st quarter scores because stats have not leveled out at this stage yet. Some players could have 13 or 14 effective possesions and no-one else is near them after the first quarter.  Then as the game goes on, other players and the portion that the originally player had of this particular stat overall in the game would be much less. This could apply for any type of scoring act also, for eg: goals contested marks clearences tackles. thats just my thought anyway???