2nd ruck

[miffysp]

Is it really worth getting 2 prem rucks at the start?
I been thinkin that it might b worth pikin 1 premium ruck and 3 rookies.
It might sound crazy I know but hear me out.
We got Giles and Stephenson who r as gaurenteed to play week in week out as any other rookie player in the comp. And most likely getting plenty of time in the ruck at there respective clubs therefor getting very involved in the game. Even if they average 80 odd itl b worth it as a rookie in the ruck will most likely average more than a rookie elsewhere on the field. Therefor becoming a better cash cow.
Than upgrade Giles or Stephenson to a prem ruck when the time is right.
This will just give u more money at the start to pick another prem in another position.
U could even get Renouf as he will most likely b port main ruck and he is at a bargain basement price.

Thoughts people?????

[Ringo]

Have just posted an updated team in Rate my Supercoach with Lobbe as second Ruck. Structure being a Prem, Mid Pric and 2 Rookies (Berger Lobbe Giles and Stephenson).
Can see you reasoning for a 3 rookie structure but just wait till teams are named to ensure that the three are named and playing  so that you can get the upgrade later on.

[miffysp]

Cheer ringo
Yeh I wouldn't lock anything in until names r released and we have seen what the players r capable of through the nab cup.
It's just there r some cheap rucks this year most likely going to go alright. Seems a waste not to capitalize on this.
I'm not convinced lobbe will b no1 ruck just yet. It's a toss up between him n Renouf.
IMO Giles is 98% chance of playing, stephenson 95%, Witts 60%, Renouf 90%. There some pretty good odds but yeah a lot can change before round 1. And 3 of these would make up 3 of the ruck spots.

[Colliwobblers]

its hard to say because if you have 2 premiums avg 90+ compared to 1 and a rook averaging sub 80 you are loosing points on the overall side of things every round until you upgrade to a premium and you need to use an extra trade.

On the flip side you will make more money from cashcows in the ruck, but will make less somewhere else as you will have started a premium in another area instead of a rook with the money you saved in teh ruck.

its an interesting conundrum, there is premo-premo , premo - midpriced (hmaz kruez) - prem -rook.

im premo-premo at the moment dont think ill be brave enough for premo-rook, but am very tempted to go premo-midpriced.

[miffysp]

Yeah there r quite a few mid priced rucks that will likely elevate there game worth having a look at for sure. zac smith, lobbe, Trent west,etc, etc.

I just think it might b better gettin the extra rook ruck as I see there price will likely go up more and quicker than a mid forward or defender coz they r always involved where as field players will likely b more inconsistent. IMO that is.

I'm considering dumping sandi and bringing in witts onto my bench. Elevating stephenson or giles to the field. Provided all 3 r guna b playin that is. That'll free up 500k. Enough to elevate two mid priced players to premium keepers.
Duno duno. I might throw this all out the window n play it safe with the 2 prem rucks in sandi n berger

[dmac07]

Big risk playing 3 rookie rucks, could pay off but not for me. To say giles/stephenson will ave 80 just because they will be in the play i think is very wrong.

If this was the case wouldnt all rucks average over 80? Can see these guys coming up against someone like a cox or a mumford and getting dominated in the ruck, plus the ball is not going to be given to them by the team as much as they do not have the skill/speed of the midfielders.

Not saying these guys wont be great back ip and good cash cows, but if they average 65 sitting on my bench i would be more than happy.

[Torress]

yea we don't know if that stephenson will even get a gig. its just the fact ottens and blake are both gone from their list they needed fill the ruck stocks. if fit i'd imagine west and vardy will play b4 him, and the catters may even go with tom hawkins as 2nd ruck if one of vardy/west was out.
thats all hypothetical but still, i think its a bad move going with 3 rookie rucks you could get really burnt. you get the collateral so to speak with a set and forget ruck strategy as your rucks will have good value and its an easy trade to another prem from a prem. if you go with rookies, and one gets injured or not named ect, and it comes at a bad time for you, you might not have enough coin to trade in a ruck you were hoping for or it might cost you in other areas as you are forced to focus on your rucks.

set and forget mate premo rucks score well, we still have GWS rookies to pick from to save some coin at the start

[Ringo]

I will be looking at a Prem, Mid and 2 rookies this year initially. West is juicily priced.

[dmac07]

I think West is at that awkward price. If you believe he can lift his average to 90+, he is a good get. IMO he will probably average mid 80s, and not quite be a keeper, but at his price not going to make a lot of cash either.

[lozza63]

I can really see the merit in not setting and forgetting with 2 premium rucks this year. One i believe is a must, but unfortunately last season saw our rucks all increase in value! Apart from possibly Jolly - who is now basically unwanted as an option nowadays.

With the magic number around the 5'420 mark we should see the top rucks drop down in value - yeah so what lozza so will the mids - right?

Well my contention is that we can throw a blanket across about six guys this year - with possibly only McEvoy/Jacobs/Nic/Kreuze having the ability to improve to the 100+ average. My feeling is that we can wait on who is shaping up as top five target around round 8/9 - then make a selection based on that person's remaining opponents!

What we find is question marks over Sandy - his toe - less TOG, Lyon's plans, Zac Clarke/Griffen?
We have queries over Cox - will he maintain 122 average? Will Nicnat take over later in the year?
Will Mummy not get suspended this year - what about Seaby?
Can Leuey's body hold up - he doesnt look to be the most robust ruckman going around, Hudson's role?!
Will Goldy have some of his time reduced by a resurgent Hmac.
Not too mention any Ltis - this can haunt any AFL player - granted.
Will R2 outscore a quality M4/5?
Are the mid rookies better than the ruck options - yes but still difficult to nail them all - as there is such a broad selection.

At present it is unlikely that we will see too many of these second tier premium midfield players (S.Thompson Rocky Mundy Priddis Boyd Barlow) move ahead of the Pendles/Ablett/Swan/Selwood/Murphy/Judd/Dal/Mitchell. In my mind 6 of these guys will top the total points scored at the end of the year.

Remember there is always round three to tidy ourselves up if you have to......

Loving the discussion re: R2 at the moment plenty of food for thought. At the moment i'm somewhat torn to be honest.

[Hippo]

From what i understand Big O will play Ruck rd1 and hes been told its his position to lose.

[Torress]

i've made a team with the set and forget, the premo/midpricer/rookie/rookie, and i just feel more comfortable with the set and forget.
i don't think there is an obvious midpricer like Hmac was a few years ago. i think i'd rather roll my dice with midfield rookies at M5 and maybe at M4 but i like hayes at that possie atm (M4).

i've tried the midpricer in R2 before and it was frustrating, maybe i picked the wrong guy but its difficult for a midpricer level player to string good games or enough good games in a row to make good coin - in the ruck this midpricer tees off against a really good opponent every 2nd or 3rd week and ends up being a bit of a waste as you lose points whilst you wait for the right time to upgrade. and the POD with your R2 midpricer averaging say 70 odd compared to a 110 average kills you for overall when there is a bunch of mid rookies who might do a libba/curnow to score enough to sure up our midfield at the start.

mummy and leuy look very likely for me. the only real midpricer i see is james sellar @ 229k the other midprice type of options are all around or atleast 350k plus. you might as well grab a true prem IMO.

if something crazy happens like goldie goes down early, Hmac is probably in.

[Torress]

From what i understand Big O will play Ruck rd1 and hes been told its his position to lose.

yea right, still i like him at R4 personally. might be handy around bye time but no way will i wanna have to actually play him. bailey played very well last year and he didn't score that well compared to the best. i don't know we only have two ruck spots why not pick strong rucks

[lozza63]

Torress compare these scenarios:

Set and Forget
Mids - Pendles Ablett Murphy Selwood rook rook (rook rook)  points 486 + 2 x ???.
Rucs - Mummy Leuey                                       (Giles Stepho) points 215

Against
Mids - Pendles Ablett Murphy Selwood Swan rook (rook rook) points 608 + 1 x ???
Rucs- McEvoy Giles                                           (Stepho Rowe)  points 102 + ???

Now from this example you are on last years averages 9 points ahead plus an improving Selwood score vs the doubt that the xtra ruck rook will outscore the mid rook? Thing is the bility to correctly identify the next Curnow/Libba at the 106k range? Otherwise you must pay a premium for the Giants 1st rounders - this will affect the structure throughout the rest of the team though.
With a 4-4 mid structure who under 127k are we sure of selecting in the mids anyway - somehow the ruck 2 of the ruck rooks look fairly sure - with only R4 a little up in the air - still i fancy being able to sift through 3 or 4 possibilities ie Witts Rowe Derrickx far easier than the multitude of rookie mids!!!

It's touch and go but i feel more comfy with the stacked mids - given the improvement shown by the rookie rucks in the last two years ie Zac Smith, Bailey & Lobbe 2011 and to a lesser degree Trengove/Jacobs of 2010, NicNat/Kreuze 2009. The signs are reasonable though for the rookie rucks - with the points changes helping them out a little.

[Kuruki]

At the moment i have H Mac and im happy with him as my 2nd ruck.
But i will be keeping a close eye on the nab. With Rowe Giles and Stephensen, this could be the year to have a crack at a three rookie ruck.
If any one of those guys comes out looking like they could average 70+  during the nab then i will be going 3 rooks.
I really do see some advantage in it.
Everyone's second premium ruck if youve gone that way has an average of 90 ish. If your rook can avg 70. You loose around 20 points.
If you can upgrade say someone like Wingard to a premium like Thomo or Selwood with the cash you save from downgrading your premium ruck, the extra points you are going to make over the rookie in the midfield will be more like 35-40.