My Top 50 of 2011

Master Q · October 03, 2011, 11:05:43 AM

I'd have Cloke at No.3

hawk_88 · October 03, 2011, 11:19:01 AM

When it comes to these lists for me, they are always very subjective.

The method I always like is like the school method of picking teams, i.e. two captains, alternate picking players.

So, you have been given the first choice. Remember, if you don't pick them, the other team might pick them. In that context the answer for me is Buddy.

There is a gulf between Buddy and the next best key forwards unlike that of midfielders. If I pick Ablett, the other team will pick Judd, or Swan, or Selwood. You aren't missing out on that much. Buddy is the player you want the least on the opposition team.

That being said, the one man team argument is rubbish. Few teams will completely fall apart if their best player goes down and Hawthorn has been amongst the best this season at playing with many top line missing players. When Buddy hasn't played we have managed to win and win with a big score. In fact with Buddy and Roughy out we have managed to kick a big score.

That's mine two cents on the issue.

As for Hodge, 43!? Are you serious?

Master Q · October 03, 2011, 11:21:02 AM

If you use that method I'd take Cloke. I think Cloke was much better than Franklin this season, although Hawthorn looked to Buddy way more than Collingwood looked to Cloke.

hawk_88 · October 03, 2011, 11:57:31 AM

Not sure you are right to suggest that Cloke was a target for Collingwood less than Buddy was for Hawthorn. I remember reading a stat that had Cloke as the number one target inside 50 this year with Franklin second. Can't find it at the moment though.

Despite this, Franklin had, 13 more goals, 17 more goal involvements, 4 more goal assists, 3 more disposals per game, all with Cloke playing 3 more games this season. I can't find the exact stat but he also leads the AFL in score involvements by a significant margin. So he personally scores more goals and brings in other players to score the most as well - certainly seems like a good measure of "most influential".

valkorum · October 03, 2011, 12:23:14 PM

This list is a joke. Fyfe has to be #1 :P

hehehehehehehe

Quote from: hawk_88 on October 03, 2011, 11:57:31 AM
Not sure you are right to suggest that Cloke was a target for Collingwood less than Buddy was for Hawthorn. I remember reading a stat that had Cloke as the number one target inside 50 this year with Franklin second. Can't find it at the moment though.

Despite this, Franklin had, 13 more goals, 17 more goal involvements, 4 more goal assists, 3 more disposals per game, all with Cloke playing 3 more games this season. I can't find the exact stat but he also leads the AFL in score involvements by a significant margin. So he personally scores more goals and brings in other players to score the most as well - certainly seems like a good measure of "most influential".

Cloke was the best contested mark this year so depends what you are looking for.

hawk_88 · October 03, 2011, 12:34:08 PM

By a significant margin as well. There is no doubting Cloke had a great year and is definitely in my top 10.

He took a lot of contested marks on the flanks/wing, especially when Dawes wasn't playing, but despite a huge amount of inside 50s, his entries didn't have the conversion rate (i.e. assists/score involvements) to match Buddy's.

You can break down footy into very fine detail and look at complicated metrics to try and work this sort of stuff out. However, the KISS principle applies here just as it does everywhere. AFL is a game about scoring more than your opposition. So the measure of your influence on the ground ultimately has to be measured in how you contributed to increasing your teams score and stopping the oppositions scoring.

meow meow · October 03, 2011, 05:06:24 PM

Nic Nat will be number 1 this time next year.

Master Q · October 03, 2011, 05:08:25 PM

Quote from: meow meow on October 03, 2011, 05:06:24 PM
Nic Nat will be number 1 this time next year.

Yeah and I'm Santa.

roo boys! · October 03, 2011, 05:09:51 PM

SWALLOW is absolutely robbed not to be in there.

bomberboy0618 · October 03, 2011, 05:14:27 PM

Quote from: Master Q on October 03, 2011, 05:08:25 PM
Quote from: meow meow on October 03, 2011, 05:06:24 PM
Nic Nat will be number 1 this time next year.
Yeah and I'm Santa.

You dont exist! Wow!

Because I can.

Cicjose · October 03, 2011, 05:14:56 PM

Quote from: Master Q on October 03, 2011, 05:08:25 PM
Quote from: meow meow on October 03, 2011, 05:06:24 PM
Nic Nat will be number 1 this time next year.
Yeah and I'm Santa.

that can be arranged :)

Master Q · October 03, 2011, 05:21:40 PM

Quote from: bomberboy0618 on October 03, 2011, 05:14:27 PM
Quote from: Master Q on October 03, 2011, 05:08:25 PM
Quote from: meow meow on October 03, 2011, 05:06:24 PM
Nic Nat will be number 1 this time next year.
Yeah and I'm Santa.
You dont exist! Wow!

Because I can.

Picture thief :P

bomberboy0618 · October 03, 2011, 05:23:49 PM

I didnt steal it off you, I stole it off google :P.

Master Q · October 03, 2011, 05:29:21 PM

Ok we had our fun... Back on topic

Maca24 · October 03, 2011, 05:30:49 PM

Good discussion i'm seeing 8)