Top 10 AFL players in 2011

8-6 Suited · June 23, 2011, 09:04:20 PM

Quote from: Holzman on June 23, 2011, 07:05:54 PM
sorry i should have stated my point more clearly i would put cloke in my top 50 this year, but i still don't rate him as an easily top 50 player. maybee around 40-60.

He does take alot of contested marks but many of them are not inside 50. Kennedy and Franklin take more marks inside 50 and Jack has around the same inside 50 marks but with more goals. So i would put him probably 3-4 best key forward this season. going over his stats he has clearly lifted his game this season and is probably in the 20-30 range this season. But he is a player that has been overatted his whole career. Not even close to the top 10 this year, top 10 forward yes, player no.

You sir, are a nuff nuff.

Holz · June 23, 2011, 11:34:45 PM

From a person who doesnt rate judd a top 10 player this year i really cant take your opinion on this matter seriously, yeah i might be abit harsh on cloke as he has had a great year and maybee i basing it on his ho hum past. But to even mention that Cloke is a better player than judd is laughable, i f judd played for collingwood he would be 1 or 2 or all the lists.

If you gave your unbiased opinion you would definatley say he is a top 10 player, if i gave my unbiased opinion i would still rate cloke outside the top 20. You cant compare a 2 time brownlow medalist who is having a great season to some guy who has polled only 9 times in his career.

8-6 Suited · June 24, 2011, 12:30:16 AM

Rate Judd as a top 10? Personally I don't really feel Judd has had that great a year. I'm not one of those who want to rub on his bald head while sucking his almighty rigged Charlie from last year off. Murphy has easily had a much better year than him, but yet people give Judd the praise... WHy? because he can do an inspirational play or two. Doesn't make him an automatic top 10.

Clokes year has been better, and that is exactly what I would say if it was unbiased. Infact I should have put Josh Kennedy ahead of Cloke as his year has been phenomenal.

This has nothing to do with the past. perhaps its time that you take your lips away from judd's bald head and realize it is based on their years thus far, not how many times they have polled or won a brownlow. This is exactly why you are a Nuff nuff and your opinion isn't worth the weight of its dribbled shower that it is.

RiOtChEsS · June 24, 2011, 12:37:50 AM

to be fair id say this too is a midfielders thing like the brownlow :-X

if we divide it into...
top 10:
Ruck 1 Cox 2 Goldstein 3 Roughy 4 Sandilands 5 Ottens 6 Mumford 7 Smith 8 Natanui 9 Luenberger 10 Bellchambers
Back 1 Shaw 2 Fisher 3 Frawley 4 Jamison 5 Adcock 6 Taylor 7 Scotland 8 Grundy 9 Yarran 10 Newman
Forward 1 Buddy 2 Stevie J(almost midfielder) 3 Cloke 4 Petrie 5 Dawes 6 Walker 7 Kennedy 8 Garlett 9 Pods 10 Jack Roo
Midfield 1 Boyd 2 Mitchell 3 Pendles 4 Murphy 5 Judd 6 Martin 7 Selwood 8 Ablett 9 Swan 10 Priddis

it may help crystalize ppls opinions on players?

be critical if u like but i knocked it out off the top of my head so ive almost certainly overlooked players...

also guys like O'Keefe Harvey i dont consider forwards bcos they r routinely named on the ball, same with a Goddard Scotland etc

Holz · June 24, 2011, 01:55:27 AM

Quote from: 8-6 Suited on June 24, 2011, 12:30:16 AM
Rate Judd as a top 10? Personally I don't really feel Judd has had that great a year. I'm not one of those who want to rub on his bald head while sucking his almighty rigged Charlie from last year off. Murphy has easily had a much better year than him, but yet people give Judd the praise... WHy? because he can do an inspirational play or two. Doesn't make him an automatic top 10.

Clokes year has been better, and that is exactly what I would say if it was unbiased. Infact I should have put Josh Kennedy ahead of Cloke as his year has been phenomenal.

This has nothing to do with the past. perhaps its time that you take your lips away from judd's bald head and realize it is based on their years thus far, not how many times they have polled or won a brownlow. This is exactly why you are a Nuff nuff and your opinion isn't worth the weight of its dribbled shower that it is.

geez, i only brought up the brownlow to show that Judd is widely reagrded as one of the best players player now if not all time, if he was generally regarded as the best player in the comp last or in the top 3 and his season this year most would say is equal or better than this would lead me to believe that most people would rate his season very highly. Wheras cloke wasnt last year so unless cloke has got 10 times better this season and judd is having a poor season than judd is clearly the better player. Cloke has steped up his game this year but knowhere near the level to get anywhere near judd or guys like pendles for that matter.

I dont see whats that impresive though yeah number 1 in contested marks but as a key forward you are supposed to take marks inside 50 and kick goals. That is why i would place Franklin as number 1 this season, Kennedy 2 and jack and Cloke tied on 3rd.

8-6 Suited · June 24, 2011, 02:07:20 AM

Do you regularly see any other team with 11+ goal kickers? No you don't. Until you do, please, shut the flower up.

Holz · June 24, 2011, 02:14:59 AM

Quote from: 8-6 Suited on June 24, 2011, 02:07:20 AM
Do you regularly see any other team with 11+ goal kickers? No you don't. Until you do, please, shut the flower up.

so cloke is top 10 because he plays for collingwood ooh now i get it. Gellong seem to have a decent spread of goal kickers and jpod isnt many goals behind that must mean he is top 10 aswell.

8-6 Suited · June 24, 2011, 02:35:28 AM

It's not all about goal kicking if they are a forward dude, or who polls well because umpires love them in the brownlow either. That is where you are wrong. You said because he doesn't kick enough goals he isnt even in contention for top 20, yet there is no need for him to kick bags for the pies. We have a very even share of goal kickers that limits bags being produced. But he earns it for everything else he does around the ground.

Holzman, you seriously need to go evaluate what makes a good CHF.

Holz · June 24, 2011, 02:46:48 AM

Quote from: 8-6 Suited on June 24, 2011, 02:35:28 AM
It's not all about goal kicking if they are a forward dude, or who polls well because umpires love them in the brownlow either. That is where you are wrong. You said because he doesn't kick enough goals he isnt even in contention for top 20, yet there is no need for him to kick bags for the pies. We have a very even share of goal kickers that limits bags being produced. But he earns it for everything else he does around the ground.

Holzman, you seriously need to go evaluate what makes a good CHF.

i would know what you think makes a good CHF, of course scoring goals isnt the only job, but i would argue it is probably the most important. If i was going to make it more accurate i would add goal assits to goals scored, cloke has the lowest in the top 9 goal kickers.

it puts franklin on Jack 54 goals, Franklin 50 goals, Kennedy 47, Walker 42, garlett 36, Pods 35, Cloke 35. So that would place him tied 6th in creating or scoring goals.

A key job you key forwards is to take marks inside 50 franklin and kennedy are a long way ahead and the likes of Pods, Cloke, Jack are all around number 3.

A stat that cant be tested which is important is drawing defenders i would argue that cloke doesnt draw more defnders than many of the top key forwards.

so based on this i cant find a single stat would make him a top 10 player, except for his contested marks.

8-6 Suited · June 24, 2011, 02:55:41 AM

Okay, now lets break down your list a little further shall we?

Franklin, a classy CHF that plays a lot leading out of the gold square.
Jack, plays out of the goal square.
Kennedy, once again... out of the goal square but gets up the ground a bit too. having a ripping season this year.
Walker, wait can you guess it? Goal square.
Garlett all class crumber. Great kick on him but the rest of his game isn't as good as his ability to sneak goals and his agility.
Pods, Goal square.

Now Cloke? Rarely leads from the goal square.

Why? Why are his marks low in the inside 50? Because he isn't in it as much as you think that he actually is. You don't get goal assists for kicking the ball up to someone who takes a mark and then slots the goal. The assist is from a play on, handball to someone over the top. A set shot doesn't count.

LRN2STATS!

AFEV · June 24, 2011, 10:58:27 AM

Must agree with Shaggy here Holz. CHF is one of, if not the hardest position to play in. Cloke has been the best player in that role this year, therefore placing him outside the top 20 is just dumb.

Holz · June 24, 2011, 01:15:05 PM

Quote from: Sid on June 24, 2011, 10:58:27 AM
Must agree with Shaggy here Holz. CHF is one of, if not the hardest position to play in. Cloke has been the best player in that role this year, therefore placing him outside the top 20 is just dumb.

ok i respect that, do you not place franklin as a CHF or do you not rate him because i would say he has easily been the best forward by a long way this year.

8-6 Suited · June 24, 2011, 01:36:35 PM

Holzman, Franklin is easily top 15, most likely 11-12 on my list.

Holz · June 24, 2011, 01:48:55 PM

people have different opinions so i dont see much point in discussing this anymore, i still dont rate cloke in the top 20 but thats my opinion i respect that you dont rate judd either on a side note i would put buddy close to the top 5 this year and i think people have forgotten selwood with his suspension, he has been possibly the best in the comp this year in my opinion. Disagree if you want but that what i think.

valkorum · June 24, 2011, 02:01:32 PM

I love the list cos FYFEY!!! is in it :)