The politics of being banned

[BratPack]

OK, let's take your example.

First you get banned from FanFooty for saying something silly/aggressive/derogatory, then you turn up at the dole office & threaten someone's life when you don't get your way... Should you be banned from the dole office or does your freedom of speech allow you to freely & without consequence threaten people's lives?

Who determines what is silly, aggressive etc?  YOU?

Who the hell are you pal. to make such determinations? Who is anybody to do so!

Give me liberty or give me death!

FREEDOM!

[incog43]

Mate, clearly you've done something pretty ordinary to get banned... And if it was only for a weekend - get over it! Surely you've got other things to do if you can't chat on an online forum! Go out for a walk & clear your head, go to a local game of footy, or a game of AFL... anything!

But the more important point is this: whether you believe what you did deserved a ban or not is irrelevant. Prospector is the moderator of this website, and as such, it is up to him to decide - that is his prerogative. Comparing him to the nazis (and by extension, Adolf Hitler, judging by your line: "Sieg Heil to prospector!") is absolutely criminal. Please look up some history and find out just some of the atrocities commited by the nazis & their leader. Not only did they slaughter an entire generation of jewish people, they also brutalised & murdered countless gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, the handicapped and mentally ill, homosexuals and political opponents...

My point is this - please do not compare people to the nazis and their leader just to let off some steam. It is wrong. I think everyone on this forum would appreciate it if you deleted this entire post/thread.

First fascists destroy free speech, if the German population had the courage to say what was necessary millions of lives could have been saved, that in fact is the moral of your lecture.

Free speech is the fundamental principal of liberty.

I would say that the German people were predisposed to feelings of ressentiment and anomie as a result of years of hardship following their defeat in WW1 and the Great Depression. Hitler simply played upon their preponderance to simplistic narratives of 'virtuous' us opposed to an 'evil' other, the evil 'other' being the object of all the German peoples frustrations and anxieties. Unfortunately, the Jews were made the scape goat and became the object of the German people's frustrations.

Also, Hitler's Germany could not be called a Fascist state, it was a National Socialist state, Italy under Mussolini epitomised a Fascist state. National Socialism diverges from Fascism in one key area, its incorporation of biological racism and anti-Semitism.

Okay, so it diverges in one key area, so whats the difference?

ANY time you get the merger of the STATE and Corporates, you end up with the same result, fascism.

Its as simple as socialism leading to communism.

Call it what you like, the outcome is a loss of liberty and civil rights.

It begins with the people becoming dependent on the government, rather the the government being dependent on the people.

Give me liberty of give me death!

[Talisman]

You did not answer my question incog:

If you turned up at the dole office & threatened someone's life... Should you be banned from the dole office or does freedom of speech allow you to freely - & without consequence - threaten people's lives? (remember, being banned from the dole office was a point you made earlier in one of your arguments)

[incog43]

OK, let's take your example.

First you get banned from FanFooty for saying something silly/aggressive/derogatory, then you turn up at the dole office & threaten someone's life when you don't get your way... Should you be banned from the dole office or does your freedom of speech allow you to freely & without consequence threaten people's lives?

Who determines what is silly, aggressive etc?  YOU?

Who the hell are you pal. to make such determinations? Who is anybody to do so!

Give me liberty or give me death!

FREEDOM!

I refer to the work of Hobbes in "Leviathan," in a state of nature (much like that which can be found on the internet and on this forum) life of man would be, "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short," in the absence of a benevolent figure such as prospector to protect us from ourselves.

So you embrace fascism? You need to be taken care off? You need to feel safe? You need someone...

You cant take care of yourself?

Hobbes? KISS, its the "fourth turning".

[incog43]

You did not answer my question incog:

If you turned up at the dole office & threatened someone's life... Should you be banned from the dole office or does freedom of speech allow you to freely - & without consequence - threaten people's lives? (remember, being banned from the dole office was a point you made earlier in one of your arguments)

I answered above, perhaps you couldnt understand my response?

Five me liberty or give me death!

[Bluke]

Mate, clearly you've done something pretty ordinary to get banned... And if it was only for a weekend - get over it! Surely you've got other things to do if you can't chat on an online forum! Go out for a walk & clear your head, go to a local game of footy, or a game of AFL... anything!

But the more important point is this: whether you believe what you did deserved a ban or not is irrelevant. Prospector is the moderator of this website, and as such, it is up to him to decide - that is his prerogative. Comparing him to the nazis (and by extension, Adolf Hitler, judging by your line: "Sieg Heil to prospector!") is absolutely criminal. Please look up some history and find out just some of the atrocities commited by the nazis & their leader. Not only did they slaughter an entire generation of jewish people, they also brutalised & murdered countless gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, the handicapped and mentally ill, homosexuals and political opponents...

My point is this - please do not compare people to the nazis and their leader just to let off some steam. It is wrong. I think everyone on this forum would appreciate it if you deleted this entire post/thread.

First fascists destroy free speech, if the German population had the courage to say what was necessary millions of lives could have been saved, that in fact is the moral of your lecture.

Free speech is the fundamental principal of liberty.

I would say that the German people were predisposed to feelings of ressentiment and anomie as a result of years of hardship following their defeat in WW1 and the Great Depression. Hitler simply played upon their preponderance to simplistic narratives of 'virtuous' us opposed to an 'evil' other, the evil 'other' being the object of all the German peoples frustrations and anxieties. Unfortunately, the Jews were made the scape goat and became the object of the German people's frustrations.

Also, Hitler's Germany could not be called a Fascist state, it was a National Socialist state, Italy under Mussolini epitomised a Fascist state. National Socialism diverges from Fascism in one key area, its incorporation of biological racism and anti-Semitism.

Okay, so it diverges in one key area, so whats the difference?

ANY time you get the merger of the STATE and Corporates, you end up with the same result, fascism.

Its as simple as socialism leading to communism.

Call it what you like, the outcome is a loss of liberty and civil rights.

It begins with the people becoming dependent on the government, rather the the government being dependent on the people.

Give me liberty of give me death!

I would say the extermination of up three million Jews, homosexuals, blacks, Jehovah's and Romani is a pretty big difference my friend.

Your assumption that Socialism leads to Communism simply demonstrates how utterly inept you in a philosophical debate. Marx's Socialism in no way resembles the pragmatic realisation of Leninist and Stalinist Russia, which also in no way resembles true Communism. Apples and oranges incog43, apples and oranges. 

de Tocqueville's 'tyranny of the majority' is just as frightening as Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan in my mind.

[Talisman]

So from that I take it that you would rather be able to threathened somebody's life & not be kicked out of the dole office, or be dead. That is truly sad.

Here it is: Freedom of speech is absolutely vital to liberty - no doubt - but, it should not be used as a shield to say absolutely anything you want to. If you said something extremely offensive (eg. racist, sexist, anti-semitic, etc.) to someone - are they not allowed to take offense at that purely because there is freedom of speech? That can't be right - what a horrible world to live in: one where people can make biggoted, anti-semetic, homophobic, sexist statments, offending any number of people and are never held to account. Think of those poor people who could be horribly hurt by those remarks...

And here we strike at the heart of the matter - if you take ANYTHING to the enth degree, it goes wrong. There must be a balance in all things - including, but not limited to, freedom of speech. Thank you for discussing this with me without resorting to petty name calling.

[Fenno]

Just get over it. You got banned and not by Prospector but by Monty. I hope Monty sees this and extends your ban for life.

[dwite]

i dunno about freedom of speech but prospector is still a knob

[Cookie Monster]

are you Hitler or something?


do you know how offensive to all the Germans even talking about him?


obviously not, get over yourself.

[incog43]

Mate, clearly you've done something pretty ordinary to get banned... And if it was only for a weekend - get over it! Surely you've got other things to do if you can't chat on an online forum! Go out for a walk & clear your head, go to a local game of footy, or a game of AFL... anything!

But the more important point is this: whether you believe what you did deserved a ban or not is irrelevant. Prospector is the moderator of this website, and as such, it is up to him to decide - that is his prerogative. Comparing him to the nazis (and by extension, Adolf Hitler, judging by your line: "Sieg Heil to prospector!") is absolutely criminal. Please look up some history and find out just some of the atrocities commited by the nazis & their leader. Not only did they slaughter an entire generation of jewish people, they also brutalised & murdered countless gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, the handicapped and mentally ill, homosexuals and political opponents...

My point is this - please do not compare people to the nazis and their leader just to let off some steam. It is wrong. I think everyone on this forum would appreciate it if you deleted this entire post/thread.

First fascists destroy free speech, if the German population had the courage to say what was necessary millions of lives could have been saved, that in fact is the moral of your lecture.

Free speech is the fundamental principal of liberty.

I would say that the German people were predisposed to feelings of ressentiment and anomie as a result of years of hardship following their defeat in WW1 and the Great Depression. Hitler simply played upon their preponderance to simplistic narratives of 'virtuous' us opposed to an 'evil' other, the evil 'other' being the object of all the German peoples frustrations and anxieties. Unfortunately, the Jews were made the scape goat and became the object of the German people's frustrations.

Also, Hitler's Germany could not be called a Fascist state, it was a National Socialist state, Italy under Mussolini epitomised a Fascist state. National Socialism diverges from Fascism in one key area, its incorporation of biological racism and anti-Semitism.

Okay, so it diverges in one key area, so whats the difference?

ANY time you get the merger of the STATE and Corporates, you end up with the same result, fascism.

Its as simple as socialism leading to communism.

Call it what you like, the outcome is a loss of liberty and civil rights.

It begins with the people becoming dependent on the government, rather the the government being dependent on the people.

Give me liberty of give me death!

I would say the extermination of up three million Jews, homosexuals, blacks, Jehovah's and Romani is a pretty big difference my friend.

Your assumption that Socialism leads to Communism simply demonstrates how utterly inept you in a philosophical debate. Marx's Socialism in no way resembles the pragmatic realisation of Leninist and Stalinist Russia, which also in no way resembles true Communism. Apples and oranges incog43, apples and oranges. 

de Tocqueville's 'tyranny of the majority' is just as frightening as Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan in my mind.

Friend you seem to be concerned by what name we label tyranny, socialism, fascism, national socialism...

It is only the outcome that matters, that outcome is ALWAYS a loss of individual freedom, expression and civil libertys, the individual becomes less important, it is only the STATE that matters...

You are concerned with how they got there, rather than the outcome of once they got there...the outcome is ALWAYS the same.

There are no apples and oranges once you consider the outcome, all roads lead to the state and repression, thats all that matters.

Look, Marx had it almost right, its not class warfare, its much simpler, its simply about debtors vs savers, easy money vs hard money, that's all it is, those who want to spend other peoples money, create more debt, and those who want hard money, a gold standard perhaps, its always about money, its always about some people wanting the power to tell us what to do.

Do you have any ideas of your own, or do you just read books?

[incog43]

So from that I take it that you would rather be able to threathened somebody's life & not be kicked out of the dole office, or be dead. That is truly sad.

Here it is: Freedom of speech is absolutely vital to liberty - no doubt - but, it should not be used as a shield to say absolutely anything you want to. If you said something extremely offensive (eg. racist, sexist, anti-semitic, etc.) to someone - are they not allowed to take offense at that purely because there is freedom of speech? That can't be right - what a horrible world to live in: one where people can make biggoted, anti-semetic, homophobic, sexist statments, offending any number of people and are never held to account. Think of those poor people who could be horribly hurt by those remarks...

And here we strike at the heart of the matter - if you take ANYTHING to the enth degree, it goes wrong. There must be a balance in all things - including, but not limited to, freedom of speech. Thank you for discussing this with me without resorting to petty name calling.

Certainly people may take offence, they may argue against my statements, thats called debate, its healthy, others that watch or listen may add to that debate, also offer differing views.

You cannot make exceptions to free speech, once you begin making exceptions, where do you stop!

Who defines the parsmetters of same?

YOU? ME?

[incog43]

[/quote]

I would say the extermination of up three million Jews, homosexuals, blacks, Jehovah's and Romani is a pretty big difference my friend.

Your assumption that Socialism leads to Communism simply demonstrates how utterly inept you in a philosophical debate. Marx's Socialism in no way resembles the pragmatic realisation of Leninist and Stalinist Russia, which also in no way resembles true Communism. Apples and oranges incog43, apples and oranges. 

de Tocqueville's 'tyranny of the majority' is just as frightening as Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan in my mind.
[/quote]

Look, here's the problem, you are discussing  philosophical concepts, such as "true communism", maybe you should get your head back into reality and look at what actually happens, such as the murder of 6 million jews and others by the german state, or the millions murdered by Stalin and co.

Its the outcome that matters.

[ossie85]

It is really hard to believe you got banned from chat. I mean, you're such a calm, rational person after all.

Perhaps Prospector_1 made a hasty error in letting someone of your quality get banned.

[incog43]

It is really hard to believe you got banned from chat. I mean, you're such a calm, rational person after all.

Perhaps Prospector_1 made a hasty error in letting someone of your quality get banned.

Wow, thanks for that, you are so clever for a guy with a pic of a deer on display!

Give me liberty, or give me death!