Milne - Best Small Forward

[bunyip]

Thats true, there's other aspects of the game that are considered just as important as kicking goals, the 1 per centers.
Having said that, Milney appears to have assumed a leadership roll particularly since Riewolts injury

[wooly]

You claim that at his current goal scoring pace of 1.1 Per Game he won't be better then Milne? Since when is a Pocket judged on for how many goals they kick? Firstly, Rioli runs down players, adds defensive pressure takes marks, goes on runs. Were as for Milne, kicks 3-4 goals a game, most of them anyone could kick.

At Rioli's rate, he will overtake Milne next year.

My reply was obviously a very simplistic one, and my main point is that it is too early to tell whether Rioli will have a better career than Milne, however, the no.1 priority of any small forward is to kick goals (hence my simplistic answer).

While I agree that there are other factors that are important (chasing, tackling, leadership, etc), they all come second to kicking goals. Football (like all sports) is about winning; ultimately goals win games. Plus it is not as though Milne does not do those things (but I agree not to the same extent as Rioli).

Basically my point is that it is too early to tell if Rioli will have a better career than Milne.

[wooly]

At Rioli's rate, he will overtake Milne next year.

I would like to see you back up this comment.

[Justin Bieber]

Alot of support for Milne from a Demons supporter ;D.

Milne is a great goal sneak and crumber. Probably one of the best ever in that category if thats what you want from a small forward. But his overall game is lacking somewhat. Still considered a great small forward, but many great all rounded small fowards that do more than just kick goals. Maybe not as much, but tackles and defensive pressure does make up for that.

[bunyip]

While I agree that there are other factors that are important (chasing, tackling, leadership, etc), they all come second to kicking goals.
[/quote]
I don't agree. I know there are forwards (may not be small) that are there to apply defensive pressure or curb the influence of running backs, and kicking the odd goal is a bonus.

[wooly]

While I agree that there are other factors that are important (chasing, tackling, leadership, etc), they all come second to kicking goals.

I don't agree. I know there are forwards (may not be small) that are there to apply defensive pressure or curb the influence of running backs, and kicking the odd goal is a bonus.

I'll break down why I think goals is the most important role of the small forward (and why they are the best measure of their success/failure). The goal of football is to win, and you win by outscoring the opposition, therefore the two most important things in football are: 1) Scoring (goals) 2) stopping the opposition from scoring. Each member (position) in the team plays a role: Backs stop the opposition from scoring (duh!), midfielders work both ways (duh!) and forwards score (duh!). Now you mentioned there are forwards whose roles are to prevent the other team scoring, by stopping the opposition generating run off half back - which is where most goals are set-up from. While I agree this is important, it is no good stopping a team from scoring if you can't score yourself, hence why I say goals are the most important measure of a small forwards success (and why a goal scoring small forward is more important than a defensive tagging small forward).

[wooly]

Alot of support for Milne from a Demons supporter ;D.

Milne is a great goal sneak and crumber. Probably one of the best ever in that category if thats what you want from a small forward. But his overall game is lacking somewhat. Still considered a great small forward, but many great all rounded small fowards that do more than just kick goals. Maybe not as much, but tackles and defensive pressure does make up for that.

Haha, I actually hate Milne, but I still respect his ability and think he should get acknowledged for it.

You sum it up pretty well: he plays the "textbook" small forward role well (crumbing and sneaky goals) which is what I'd want from my small forward (and probably should have added it to the criteria - but then it would probably be a bit excessive and specific). As Leigh Matthews said the small forward position is extremely difficult to play and I believe that Milne, due to his longevity (200+ games) and production (400+ goals), has played the position exceptionally well (and should therefore be recognised for it).

I have explained in the post above why I consider goals a priority for small forwards (over other things) and while I agree his game overall is lacking somewhat, I challenge you to find a small forward that meets (or is likely to meet) his production and longevity, whilst still excelling at the other aspects of the game (leadership; 1 per centers - smothers, chasing tackling; etc).

[Master Q]

While I agree that there are other factors that are important (chasing, tackling, leadership, etc), they all come second to kicking goals.

I don't agree. I know there are forwards (may not be small) that are there to apply defensive pressure or curb the influence of running backs, and kicking the odd goal is a bonus.

I'll break down why I think goals is the most important role of the small forward (and why they are the best measure of their success/failure). The goal of football is to win, and you win by outscoring the opposition, therefore the two most important things in football are: 1) Scoring (goals) 2) stopping the opposition from scoring. Each member (position) in the team plays a role: Backs stop the opposition from scoring (duh!), midfielders work both ways (duh!) and forwards score (duh!). Now you mentioned there are forwards whose roles are to prevent the other team scoring, by stopping the opposition generating run off half back - which is where most goals are set-up from. While I agree this is important, it is no good stopping a team from scoring if you can't score yourself, hence why I say goals are the most important measure of a small forwards success (and why a goal scoring small forward is more important than a defensive tagging small forward).

Yes  but who says Hawthorn don't score throught Rioli's plays? I have seen many different situations were Rioli lays it off to Franklin/Roughead who slot it through!

So What If He Doesn't Score, They Still Do When He Touches It.

[Justin Bieber]

Will see if I can come up with any during the weekend :).

[wooly]

While I agree that there are other factors that are important (chasing, tackling, leadership, etc), they all come second to kicking goals.

I don't agree. I know there are forwards (may not be small) that are there to apply defensive pressure or curb the influence of running backs, and kicking the odd goal is a bonus.

I'll break down why I think goals is the most important role of the small forward (and why they are the best measure of their success/failure). The goal of football is to win, and you win by outscoring the opposition, therefore the two most important things in football are: 1) Scoring (goals) 2) stopping the opposition from scoring. Each member (position) in the team plays a role: Backs stop the opposition from scoring (duh!), midfielders work both ways (duh!) and forwards score (duh!). Now you mentioned there are forwards whose roles are to prevent the other team scoring, by stopping the opposition generating run off half back - which is where most goals are set-up from. While I agree this is important, it is no good stopping a team from scoring if you can't score yourself, hence why I say goals are the most important measure of a small forwards success (and why a goal scoring small forward is more important than a defensive tagging small forward).

Yes  but who says Hawthorn don't score throught Rioli's plays? I have seen many different situations were Rioli lays it off to Franklin/Roughead who slot it through!

So What If He Doesn't Score, They Still Do When He Touches It.

I have also seen many situations in which Milne has laid it off too Reiwoldt/ Kosi and they have put it through.

If Rioli plays 200+ games, lifts his average goals per game to ~1.5 and maintains his tackling pressure (all very achievable goals) than there is no doubt he will have had a better career than Milne; my point still remains that it is too early to tell.

So small forwards better than Milne (based on the criteria): Brad Johnson and possibly Cyril Rioli.

[wooly]

On a completely unrelated note:

I'VE FINISHED EXAMS!!!

;D

[Justin Bieber]

Finally wooly!!! :D

Finished mine last week ;D.

[Master Q]

wooly, may I ask non-stat wise, do you really think Milne is one of the best small forwards?

[wooly]

wooly, may I ask non-stat wise, do you really think Milne is one of the best small forwards?

For what I consider the role of a small forward to be (crumbing and goal kicking) yes. Would I pick him in the team of the century or team of the decade? God no.

[bunyip]

I've had a look at his stats so far this year and to be honest there is nothing startling. If he is such a champion you would think he's be the top 10 for SOMETHING