Milne - Best Small Forward

[wooly]

During the St Kilda/ Fremantle game I stated that Milne would go down as one of the best small forwards in history, to which I recieved numerous comments along the lines of "wooly what are you smoking?!"

So to those who think I've lost it, please name any true small forward* that had (or will have) a better career than Milne. The only player that comes close is Phillip Matera (West Coast, 179 games, 389 goals), however Milne beats him out due to his longevity.

*I should clarify that I would classify a true small forward as someone under 6 ft (<183cm) and who essentially played their entire career in the forwardline (this would rule out goalkicking midfielders such as Kevin Bartlett, Leigh Matthews, etc).

[RyanV22]

Stevie J and Chappy small forwards?

[ossie85]

Lol. No.

Milne has never even made an All Australian team, he can't be considered one of the greats. Never won a best and fairest. Not a leader of his club. Goes missing in big games.

And the best small forwards are eventually moved to the midfield! Milne doesn't have that ability.

[wooly]

Stevie J and Chappy small forwards?

Stevie J is 190cm

Chappy is also too tall, but he is more of a midfielder than forward.

[wooly]

Lol. No.

Milne has never even made an All Australian team, he can't be considered one of the greats. Never won a best and fairest. Not a leader of his club. Goes missing in big games.

And the best small forwards are eventually moved to the midfield! Milne doesn't have that ability.

All Australian Teams do not pick players based on position (see Dane Swan '09 - named as a forward, Lake '09 - named in the back pocket, and numerous others) so that argument is flawed.

Too say that the best small forwards are eventually moved to the midfield is to miss the point of my post: I said players who play virtually their entire career as a small forward (i.e. Jeff Farmer, Phillip Matera, Adam Schnieder, etc). By the way, which best small forwards have been moved into the midfield?

[ossie85]

Small forwards are picked in the All Aus team all the time - Davis, Medhurst, Brad Johnson, Matera, Nathan Brown, Jeff Farmer.....

Brad Johnson is 4 cm taller than Milne, in my mind he IS a small forward that is just very good at playing tall!

And small forwards turning into midfielders? How about Ben Cousins and Gary Ablett jnr off the top of my head?

[wooly]

Small forwards are picked in the All Aus team all the time - Davis, Medhurst, Brad Johnson, Matera, Nathan Brown, Jeff Farmer.....

Brad Johnson is 4 cm taller than Milne, in my mind he IS a small forward that is just very good at playing tall!

And small forwards turning into midfielders? How about Ben Cousins and Gary Ablett jnr off the top of my head?

Davis, Medhurst, Matera, Farmer have only been named once in All Australian teams. If you re-read my original post you'll see that I said when Milne retires he will go down as one of the best small forwards, meaning he still has a chance to make an All Australian Team. Besides All Australian Teams reward a player based on performance over one year. I mean sure Medhurst and Davis may be All Australians but where are they now? Both struggling with consistency and form. Only Matera and Farmer (and Johnson) compare to Milne in terms of consistency and logevity over their careers. Here are some facts and figures for you:

Davis*: 194 Games, 250 Goals (1.3 goals per game)
Medhurst*: 166 Games, 274 Goals (1.6 goals per game)
Farmer: 249 Games, 483 Goals (1.9 goals per game)
Matera: 179 Games, 389 Goals (2.2 goals per game)
Johnson*: 352 Games, 549 Goals (1.6 goals per game)
Milne*: 200 Games, 408 Goals (2.0 goals per game)

*Still playing

Milne is better than Medhurst and Davis due to goals per game; he will most likely beat out Matera for longevity (unfortunate that Matera's career was cut short by injury); and he will most likely finish his career with more games and goals then Farmer. Johnson is the only player on that list that has (and most likely will have) a better career than Milne.

So even if Milne does not make an All Australian Team this does not change the fact that he will have had one of the best careers of any small forward.

As for Ben Cousins and Gary Ablett Jr, even in their early playing days when they played forward they were still rotating through the midfield. Rather then drag this arguement out I'll ask a simple question: will either be remembered as a small forward? No. Will Milne? Yes. Either way, like I said earlier this post is not about who the best foward-turned-midfielder is, but the best small forward who played virtually their entire career as a small forward.

[ossie85]

Apologies Wooly, I thought these threads were for discussion! But if you keep saying 'read my original post' then clearly all you want to do is state your own opinion. I thought you were asking a question!

[wooly]

Apologies Wooly, I thought these threads were for discussion! But if you keep saying 'read my original post' then clearly all you want to do is state your own opinion. I thought you were asking a question!

lol of course it's for discussion, I keep saying read my original post because you keep posting comments that stray from the criteria! For example:

And the best small forwards are eventually moved to the midfield!

My reply:

Too say that the best small forwards are eventually moved to the midfield is to miss the point of my post: I said players who play virtually their entire career as a small forward (i.e. Jeff Farmer, Phillip Matera, Adam Schnieder, etc).

It says it clearly in the ORIGINAL POST.

I'll put the question in bold so it's clear to you: Name a player under 6ft (<183cm) who essentially played (or plays) their entire career as a small forward that had (or will have) a better career than Milne?

Your answer:

Small forwards are picked in the All Aus team all the time - Davis, Medhurst, Brad Johnson, Matera, Nathan Brown, Jeff Farmer.....

Brad Johnson is 4 cm taller than Milne, in my mind he IS a small forward that is just very good at playing tall!

My reply:

Davis, Medhurst, Matera, Farmer have only been named once in All Australian teams. If you re-read my original post you'll see that I said when Milne retires he will go down as one of the best small forwards, meaning he still has a chance to make an All Australian Team. Besides All Australian Teams reward a player based on performance over one year. I mean sure Medhurst and Davis may be All Australians but where are they now? Both struggling with consistency and form. Only Matera and Farmer (and Johnson) compare to Milne in terms of consistency and logevity over their careers.

Milne is better than Medhurst and Davis due to goals per game; he will most likely beat out Matera for longevity (unfortunate that Matera's career was cut short by injury); and he will most likely finish his career with more games and goals then Farmer. Johnson is the only player on that list that has (and most likely will have) a better career than Milne.

How is this not a discussion?! You made a comment I replied with evidence supporting my argument and acknowledged your arguments... I even stated that you were probably right in saying Johnson is a better small forward than Milne (although the case could be argued that he's not a true small forward, however he meets the criteria I set out so I don't have much choice but to agree with you)!!!

So please tell me again how this is not a discussion?!

[bunyip]

Not a leader of his club. Goes missing in big games.

I agree with ossie. Schnieder as well

[ossie85]

I'll put the question in bold so it's clear to you: Name a player under 6ft (>182cm) who essentially played (or plays) their entire career as a small forward that had (or will have) a better career than Milne?

Geez, Wooly! No need to come out so strong! I apologise if I've upset you!

Six foot is 183cm btw ;), but I've gotta say Peter Daicos. Though, at 184cm, he wouldn't be included in your criteria! Also, Jeff Farmer. And you seem to be punishing Brad Johnson because he is so good at playing like a tall forward you exclude him from comparison? So yes, Milne is one of the greatest small forwards if you exclude all the players too good to play in that position for their careers! Seems an odd thing to be saying. Would be like excluding Leigh Matthews from being included as a great midfielder cos he played in the forward line, or Gary Ablett senior as a great forward because he played in the midfield!

My point is that you're phrasing the question with so many criteria that you're excluding the vast majority of players!

Is Milne a proven match winner? I don't see much evidence of that. Why else would Grant Thomas want to drop him the game after he scored 11 goals for the following final? A final which he failed in. Milne has only ONE skill - and that's score sneaky goals. Very one dimensional. I always use a SC scores as a measure of influence on a game (except for key backmen) and he has never averaged more than 80 in a year.

I'll put it to you this way - if you were selecting an all star team to play for your life - would you even consider picking Stephen Milne? I no I certainly wouldn't.

[wooly]

Geez, Wooly! No need to come out so strong! I apologise if I've upset you!

lol no you haven't upset me, just annoyed me when you accused me of not "discussing" the topic.

Six foot is 183cm btw ;)

I must admit I pulled 182 off the top of my head so I looked up 6ft and technically it is 182.88 cm, which is obviously closer to 183 than 182 so you got me there!

but I've gotta say Peter Daicos. Though, at 184cm, he wouldn't be included in your criteria! Also, Jeff Farmer. And you seem to be punishing Brad Johnson because he is so good at playing like a tall forward you exclude him from comparison? So yes, Milne is one of the greatest small forwards if you exclude all the players too good to play in that position for their careers! Seems an odd thing to be saying. Would be like excluding Leigh Matthews from being included as a great midfielder cos he played in the forward line, or Gary Ablett senior as a great forward because he played in the midfield!

My point is that you're phrasing the question with so many criteria that you're excluding the vast majority of players!

I had two criteria: under 6ft and played entire career as a small forward (hardly seems likely "so many criteria"). I asked you to answer the question based on the criteria you were given (despite how odd the question may seem to you). (besides if you thought it was a poor question why didn't you say that originally?).

Peter Daicos is without doubt one of the best forwards in the history of the game but like you said he didn't meet the criteria. I already explained why I think Milne will have a better career than Jeff Farmer. And as for Brad Johnson:

And you seem to be punishing Brad Johnson because he is so good at playing like a tall forward you exclude him from comparison?

Mate, how about you learn to read before you comment! It says clearly in my earlier post:

Johnson is the only player on that list that has (and most likely will have) a better career than Milne.

and:

I even stated that you were probably right in saying Johnson is a better small forward than Milne (although the case could be argued that he's not a true small forward, however he meets the criteria I set out so I don't have much choice but to agree with you)!!!

Not once did I "punish" Johnson or say that Milne was better. This is why I keep asking you to go back and read my posts! lol

Is Milne a proven match winner? I don't see much evidence of that. Why else would Grant Thomas want to drop him the game after he scored 11 goals for the following final? A final which he failed in. Milne has only ONE skill - and that's score sneaky goals. Very one dimensional. I always use a SC scores as a measure of influence on a game (except for key backmen) and he has never averaged more than 80 in a year.

I'll put it to you this way - if you were selecting an all star team to play for your life - would you even consider picking Stephen Milne? I no I certainly wouldn't.

Answer to your last question: No. lol

You seem to have an issue with the question, which is fine because it is an odd question, but I asked you for the answer to that question. If I had said: "pick any player in history to play in the forward pocket or as a small forward?" Milne wouldn't even come into consideration. But I didn't ask that question. I don't have any issue with you, but in future I would suggest that you read the entire post (thoroughly) before passing comment.

[bunyip]

yer ossie, read the frign posts thoroughly will ya.....Geeeez ;D

[bunyip]

What was the question?

[wooly]

What was the question?

lol smart arse :P