WXV Rules Discussion 2020

Started by Purple 77, September 03, 2020, 08:57:34 PM

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Nige

Quote from: RaisyDaisy on September 06, 2020, 01:09:14 AM
Quote from: Nige on September 05, 2020, 09:29:27 PM
Only other thing to add is that min HGA is dumb, don't be babies, cop the shower score, it's part of the game. You're already getting HGA, that's a boost in itself and a luxury your opponent that week doesn't have. I don't see why we're eliminating a random element we've stuck with for so many years.
We could say that for every single rule that has changed before, couldn't we?
Sure, we could. But I think this is one of the least problematic/broken rules we've got and discussed to ever change.

JBs-Hawks

Yea leave HGA as it is. If your worried about having a low HGA get a better 15th player.

The sub rule already eliminates bad HGA due to an injury, so therefore if your player just scores shower you should deal with it.

RaisyDaisy

Quote from: JBs-Hawks on September 06, 2020, 01:11:24 PM
Yea leave HGA as it is. If your worried about having a low HGA get a better 15th player.

The sub rule already eliminates bad HGA due to an injury, so therefore if your player just scores shower you should deal with it.

Hard to argue with that

Might struggle to get the votes for this one Holz




Purple 77

Salary caps!

Holz has suggested an alternative methodology, with regards to placing a higher waiting on the most recent year's performance by each player.

All else being equal (i.e. disregarding the other elements in the cap), the current cap considers the players average score over the past 66 games (59 for this year), and uses that as the main basis for their worth. The intention of this rule was to make sure that say, Lance Franklin is worth something next year, rather than going back to the minimum price given he has played no games in 2020.

FWIW, I'm happy with the way the cap is at the moment. But for arguments sake, lets see what it looks like under Holz' system.

Holz has nominated that 2018 scores are discounted to 75% of the original score, 100% of 2019s and 250% of 2020s.

Obviously, the cap is going to increase (by $36.5M actually) given that player averages have been modified.

The following comparisons show what the impact is:

(*cap values have been calculated on past 56 AFL games, with 3 more rounds to come)

Holz CapCap           Over Cap  Under Cap                  Current Cap      Over Cap       Under Cap
Beijing Thunder $12,546,000 $246,000 $10,312,000 $112,000
Berlin Brewers $11,524,000 $9,700,000
Buenos Aires Armadillos $11,741,000 $9,326,000
Cairo Sands $11,511,000 $9,652,000
Cape Town Cobras $12,260,000 $9,897,000
Christchurch Saints $9,866,000 $34,000 $8,205,000
Dublin Destroyers $12,132,000 $9,911,000
London Royals $11,083,000 $9,206,000
Mexico City Suns $11,349,000 $9,255,000
Moscow Spetsnaz $11,791,000 $10,046,000
New Delhi Tigers $11,543,000 $9,041,000
New York Revolution $10,741,000 $9,083,000
Pacific Islanders $12,527,000 $227,000 $10,310,000 $110,000
PNL Reindeers $12,019,000 $9,820,000
Rio de Janeiro Jaguars $11,624,000 $10,185,000
Seoul Magpies $11,997,000 $9,948,000
Tokyo Samurai $12,807,000 $507,000 $10,341,000 $141,000
Toronto Wolves $11,725,000 $10,048,000
No Club $500,000 $500,000
METRICS
AVERAGE PER PLAYER 255,484.89 211,349.46
PLAYERS827827
AVERAGE LIST SIZE45.9445.94
AVERAGE SALARY $11,736,976 $9,709,394
MAX $12,400,000 $10,200,000
MIN $9,900,000 $8,200,000




KEY PLAYER MOVEMENTS

(top 20 increases, top 20 decreases)

Full NameWXV ClubFormerSalaryMovement
Sam DochertyMoscow Spetsnaz $254,000 $635,000 $381,000
Caleb SerongBuenos Aires Armadillos $188,000 $469,000 $281,000
Noah AndersonNew Delhi Tigers $175,000 $439,000 $264,000
Lachie NealeBeijing Thunder $829,000 $1,082,000 $253,000
Jordan RidleyTokyo Samurai $241,000 $484,000 $243,000
Ben KeaysPNL Reindeers $194,000 $418,000 $224,000
Trent McKenzieNew Delhi Tigers $182,000 $405,000 $223,000
Marc PittonetDublin Destroyers $193,000 $416,000 $223,000
Jake AartsNew York Revolution $149,000 $372,000 $223,000
Jack MacraeToronto Wolves $823,000 $1,040,000 $217,000
Shane McAdamCape Town Cobras $143,000 $358,000 $215,000
Max KingBeijing Thunder $140,000 $350,000 $210,000
Jack SteeleNew York Revolution $565,000 $773,000 $208,000
John NobleLondon Royals $166,000 $373,000 $207,000
Lachlan AshBuenos Aires Armadillos $137,000 $342,000 $205,000
Jarryd LyonsPacific Islanders $566,000 $768,000 $202,000
Sam WalshMexico City Suns $333,000 $529,000 $196,000
Reilly O'BrienBuenos Aires Armadillos $324,000 $519,000 $195,000
Marcus BontempelliPacific Islanders $651,000 $843,000 $192,000
Zach MerrettPNL Reindeers $677,000 $868,000 $191,000
Rory ThompsonBuenos Aires Armadillos $126,000 $100,000 $(26,000)
Shane SavagePNL Reindeers $346,000 $319,000 $(27,000)
Joel HamlingRio de Janeiro Jaguars $232,000 $204,000 $(28,000)
Jordan MurdochMexico City Suns $208,000 $178,000 $(30,000)
Willie RioliNew York Revolution $211,000 $180,000 $(31,000)
Kade KolodjashnijMoscow Spetsnaz $145,000 $114,000 $(31,000)
Dyson HeppellDublin Destroyers $433,000 $399,000 $(34,000)
Tommy SheridanPNL Reindeers $159,000 $124,000 $(35,000)
Bryce GibbsBuenos Aires Armadillos $293,000 $253,000 $(40,000)
Tom LangdonChristchurch Saints $232,000 $192,000 $(40,000)
Dom TysonRio de Janeiro Jaguars $198,000 $158,000 $(40,000)
Jack WattsNew York Revolution $184,000 $143,000 $(41,000)
Allen ChristensenDublin Destroyers $244,000 $203,000 $(41,000)
Charlie CurnowSeoul Magpies $254,000 $211,000 $(43,000)
Josh JenkinsPacific Islanders $244,000 $201,000 $(43,000)
Jimmy WebsterBuenos Aires Armadillos $253,000 $206,000 $(47,000)
Lance FranklinBerlin Brewers $274,000 $225,000 $(49,000)
Ben JacobsRio de Janeiro Jaguars $209,000 $157,000 $(52,000)
Alex RanceBerlin Brewers $225,000 $170,000 $(55,000)
Dayne BeamsCairo Sands $353,000 $287,000 $(66,000)

So Sam Docherty's price is huge, because given he played no games in 2018 and 2019, his entire average has increased by x2.5.

The same is for Serong and Anderson, and for a lot of the top 20.

In the bottom, Beams, Rance and Bud have the biggest decreases, because they didn't play in 2020, their scores from 2018 have been discounted to 75%, rather than the full 100% in the current system.

Purple 77

The key takeaway for mine is that the change... doesn't make a huge amount of difference, except for decreasing those who didn't play in 2020, and increase those who ONLY played in 2020.

fanTCfool

Personally it looks a little harsh on first year players. I don't think Serong, Anderson and friends should cost you 400k and some change from year two, especially when they'd still be on 'rookie' contracts in the AFL.

Nige

Quote from: fanTCfool on September 06, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
Personally it looks a little harsh on first year players. I don't think Serong, Anderson and friends should cost you 400k and some change from year two, especially when they'd still be on 'rookie' contracts in the AFL.

RaisyDaisy

Quote from: fanTCfool on September 06, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
Personally it looks a little harsh on first year players. I don't think Serong, Anderson and friends should cost you 400k and some change from year two, especially when they'd still be on 'rookie' contracts in the AFL.

I agree with this, but it's a tricky one, and one that I don't think has a solution for all

First year players like Serong etc shouldn't be worth that much, but at the same time someone like Jordan Ridley should be worth a hell of a lot more than 241k

What if we made first year players exempt? Perhaps the current formula that is in place remains as is for first year players, and then the new formula is used for everyone else?

I understand this could be a nightmare for Purps, and if it is then it's not worth it - just leave it all as is, and law of averages would suggest that all teams end up having 1 or 2 players who are over/under valued, so overall it balances out

Your rare examples like Docherty, well you just cop that

First year players: Original Cap Formula
Everyone else: New Cap Formula

Does that work?

iZander

There is no completely accurate cap, but that one looks just as flawed to me...so why change?

Koop

Quote from: iZander on September 06, 2020, 08:55:29 PM
There is no completely accurate cap, but that one looks just as flawed to me...so why change?

Holz

Quote from: fanTCfool on September 06, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
Personally it looks a little harsh on first year players. I don't think Serong, Anderson and friends should cost you 400k and some change from year two, especially when they'd still be on 'rookie' contracts in the AFL.

Just to clarify the above numbers were wrong I have worked with purp and will post the correct numbers.

Serong costs the exact same in the new cap and old cap.

Holz

#26
Player2020 AverageOld CapNew CapNote
James Harmes618277declined huge
Matthew kreuzer338886missed many games this year
Lachie Neale140122127gun who has taken it to next level
Touk Miller1079296starter who is now a premo
Tom Mitchell117124121missed last year and declined abit this year
Jye Simpkin957783breakout player
Jake Lukosius886672second year breakout
Caleb Serong777777first year  gun
Darcy Macpherson557268Breakout last year then declined
Kade Simpson658476Old Guy in decline

So the clear things up and to correct the above wrong calculations this is what my cap change actually does.

1. First year players like Serong do no change in the cap as you can see Serong is 77 regardless.

2. second year players like Lukosius do change in the cap you can see Luko averages 88 the old cap has him 66 the new cap has him 72. A good comparison is Luko 88 v Serong 77 currently serong is priced at alot more then Luko even though luko averages more my cap closes the gap abit.

3. The big comparison is Jye Simpkin v James Harmes. Simpkin averages 95 and is priced at 77 where as Harmes averages 61 and is priced at 82. My cap corrects things and has Simpkin priced at 83 and Harmes at 77. Note this is 15 less then simpkin averaged and 15 more then harmes averaged so it allows for some bounce back from harmes and some fall back from Simpkin.

I dont see how you can argue that 61 average Harmes should cost more then 95 average simpkin.

4. I have used Kreuz and Titch to show that injuries dont make this cap put up stupid numbers in fact it does very little.

5. Older guys in declined like Simpson are priced accordingly he averages 65 the old system has him 84 because he was a gun 2 years ago and i have him 68 which is still 13 above what he avegs but better then the 19 under the old cap.

I am happy to do the calc for any players but i have put alot of thought into the numbers for the scaling and i imagine most people can see that this is a tweak that prices players more accurately to their actual scoring.

meow meow

Screw the cap, where's the Designated Spud?

For too long the Nathan Brown and Zaine Cordy types have had next to no value in WXV. It's time for their pitiful contribution to be celebrated.

For those who aren't aware of the rule, the designated spud is your U2 and their score is subtracted from your team's total score. Let's say your 14 others score 1400 points, and your spud scores 40. Your team total is 1360.

It eliminates the need to have 6 gun midfielders, thus creating a more even competition, while making plenty of irrelevant players relevant.

Purple 77

Alright, I got Holz' proposed cap wrong the first time. Here is the corrected version, for all players (I've divided all caps by 1000 for readability)

Full NameWXV ClubCurrentProposedMovement
C PetraccaMexico City46951344
And BrayshawBuenos Aires34338643
L NealeBeijing87191140
J SteeleNew York57861436
N HaynesSeoul45749235
C GuthrieNew York33737033
A CerraBuenos Aires29833032
B MaynardRio de Janeiro41444430
J SimpkinBeijing36939829
L McDonaldCape Town29532328
Z BaileyPacific22325128
J LyonsPacific57960728
H McCluggageCairo47850628
J LukosiusLondon22325027
J RidleyTokyo28531126
Ad SaadLondon43646125
A McGrathSeoul35538025
T MillerLondon49451824
H GreenwoodCairo43545924
M BlicavsChristchurch40843224
N CoffieldBuenos Aires21523823
T EnglishLondon34536823
E HipwoodRio de Janeiro25227523
H PerrymanPacific29231422
C DanielBeijing47749922
T RockliffBeijing40142322
T HawkinsMoscow51453622
C OliverSeoul79081121
T DumontDublin40943021
J NelsonPNL18420521
T AdamsCairo51153221
R MarshallToronto46949021
Z MerrettPNL69271321
J LloydNew Delhi79481521
Z ButtersNew Delhi25627721
D ButlerBeijing22724821
M GawnBerlin89991920
S BoltonMexico City25927920
J DaicosChristchurch22124120
W SetterfieldSeoul24826820
J AndersonNew York38640620
C DixonSeoul32034020
T BoakToronto54256220
J ShortTokyo36638519
O McInerneyNew Delhi27529419
Lu RyanPNL51753619
L Davies-UniackeMexico City18820719
J BerryBuenos Aires42143918
G RohanRio de Janeiro23825618
C MillsCape Town35437218
H ClarkPNL26628418
J BewsLondon18420218
R FoxNew Delhi19721417
J BowesCape Town29030717
N BaltaMexico City17619317
J BillingsPNL46147817
J HoweDublin35337017
J VineyRio de Janeiro38039717
T GoldsteinDublin66568116
B SheppardLondon42644216
T LiberatoreMoscow30732316
B LongTokyo20121716
C RaynerBuenos Aires23525116
J CousinsCape Town18620216
A CorrPacific20622115
L KeeffeBerlin15116615
L DugganPacific29631115
S MenegolaCape Town50752215
T MarshallRio de Janeiro18720114
Be AinsworthCape Town23825214
O WinesBuenos Aires47048414
B CoxChristchurch22423814
M CrouchDublin60561914
S MayBerlin32533813
M GibbonsTokyo23224513
Da MoorePNL24926213
Ba SmithPNL31632913
Z JonesBerlin36938213
S WalshMexico City36838113
J MadgenPNL16918112
P LadhamsTokyo22023212
P LipinskiMoscow25626812
J GrahamMexico City28930112
R StanleyNew York36137312
O FlorentBuenos Aires30832012
R TarrantDublin35937112
B EllisBeijing35937112
D ShielPNL51252311
J ThurlowBerlin18119211
B WilliamsPacific27028111
N NaitanuiMexico City37438511
W PowellBeijing17818911
L HunterMexico City52954011
R ClarkeMoscow23524510
S CollinsCape Town21622610
E LangdonNew Delhi42843810
S LycettTokyo44545510
B BewleyTokyo17118110
B McKayDublin13914910
J BranderPNL11712710
B KingPNL15016010
S MayesNew Delhi15816810
S SidebottomPNL54955910
L JongSeoul15416410
K AmonRio de Janeiro27028010
T ColeMexico City22223210
Li RyanTokyo26127110
T StewartCairo50051010
S JacobsPNL27628610
K FarrellBeijing1471569
C TaylorSeoul1251349
N BroadNew Delhi2142239
K McIntoshBuenos Aires2372469
D RampeDublin4164259
M KennedyPNL1901999
S LemmensCairo1311409
A WitherdenToronto3403499
K HartiganLondon1671769
J CorbettToronto1191289
S AtleyBuenos Aires3123208
M BontempelliPacific6816898
J RowbottomChristchurch2122208
L MurphyPNL1952038
R O'BrienBuenos Aires3853938
L BakerLondon2342428
D AstburyMoscow2532618
T McCartinPacific1861948
J WeiteringMexico City2892978
T BarrassNew Delhi3143228
O AllenPNL2282357
L FogartySeoul1701777
E RatugoleaNew York1942017
S TaylorNew Delhi1751827
J ScrimshawBuenos Aires1942017
D SheedLondon4104177
B ParfittChristchurch3363437
D HoustonNew York3893967
J MartinNew Delhi3293356
M O'ConnorDublin2242306
T PapleyCape Town3363426
C WilkieChristchurch2572636
J WittsPacific5345406
B KeaysPNL2152216
M PittonetDublin1931996
C Ah CheeChristchurch1841906
M WaltersTokyo5045106
S PendleburyMoscow5395456
B HouliBeijing3563626
J HigginsLondon2642706
M PoholkeToronto1201266
J DaniherMoscow1491556
R MathiesonLondon1821886
M CrowdenCape Town1431496
Z FisherSeoul2682746
J NewnesLondon2882946
J WatermanLondon1821886
Jak LeverBerlin2432485
J BattleCape Town2322375
J NobleLondon1831885
D ParishBuenos Aires3753805
J CrispMoscow5075125
B DanielsChristchurch2152205
S WeidemanToronto1701755
B PatonMexico City1941995
B CrockerCairo1221275
A PhillipsRio de Janeiro2112165
L DunstanNew York3393445
L SchultzDublin1381435
G MiersCape Town2422475
E HughesTokyo2322375
J AishBeijing2342395
L MelicanMexico City1671725
J HopperBuenos Aires4094134
T WilliamsonMexico City1381424
I QuaynorBerlin1561604
B ScottSeoul1591634
P RyderToronto3223264
J HenryChristchurch2342384
D GrimesLondon2842884
T DoedeeNew York2942984
D McStayLondon2222264
G LogueCape Town1721764
N VlastuinCairo4354394
D HanneberyToronto2032074
D MackayNew Delhi2192234
Jo DawsonNew Delhi3213254
B StarcevichDublin1381413
J CaldwellCairo1481513
C BallardPNL2072103
H MorrisonNew Delhi2052083
SJ ReidRio de Janeiro2002033
J SicilyMexico City4904933
M TabernerPacific2412443
N HindLondon1631663
C ZurhaarChristchurch2212243
N BlakeyMoscow1821853
K LangfordNew York3103133

Purple 77

R LesterBerlin2202233
Z CordyChristchurch2132163
J WagnerNew York1671703
B CunningtonCape Town4724753
K TurnerTokyo1982013
T DuryeaMexico City2082113
D Byrne-JonesNew York3753783
D KentCape Town2112143
Lew JettaLondon2282313
J DunkleyTokyo5725753
E PhillipsBeijing1591612
M WilliamsPNL2302322
T GreeneDublin3373392
E RichardsChristchurch2142162
D FogartySeoul1411432
J RothamNew York1591612
M DuncanCape Town6746762
I HillTokyo1411432
I SoldoCape Town2352372
B HamTokyo1141162
M CholCape Town1601622
J CastagnaCairo2572592
JJ KennedyNew Delhi2332352
E Vickers-WillisMoscow1451472
C GlassBuenos Aires1211232
N BrownChristchurch1331352
J ParsonsRio de Janeiro1421442
W RioliNew York2112132
T DumanToronto2232252
E HimmelbergNew York1601622
L McCarthyCairo2302311
J HatelyMexico City1561571
L WellerSeoul3703711
J CeglarSeoul2672681
J WorpelMexico City3833841
H AndrewsCape Town3973981
R WillsToronto1791801
CL BrownMoscow2232241
J LockhartBerlin1481491
H TaylorBerlin2082091
Q NarkleCape Town1731741
D RioliBeijing2022031
D ClarkeNew Delhi1631641
A TreloarMoscow5805811
J O'MearaToronto4534541
T ColyerCairo1531541
J KolodjashnijPacific2212221
J GreshamNew York3793801
P SeedsmanPNL2962971
O McDonaldMoscow1801811
K BrandLondon1441451
F ApplebyBerlin1181191
Pe WrightPacific1901911
J HombschMoscow1611621
A PearceMoscow1601611
Ja WattsNew York1841851
L WhitfieldTokyo6056061
J SinclairMoscow3173181
J MarshMexico City1211221
L JonesMoscow2592601
S Powell-PepperBerlin3263271
D MundyBerlin4304311
H CrozierPNL3283280
J McGovernCairo4114110
Mic HibberdToronto2552550
S DochertyMoscow2662660
C SerongBuenos Aires1941940
N AndersonNew Delhi1911910
J AartsNew York1491490
S McAdamCape Town1591590
M KingBeijing1501500
L AshBuenos Aires1441440
L VandermeerNew Delhi1251250
M PickettToronto1851850
C BudarickBuenos Aires1201200
K PickettMexico City1101100
J MahonyDublin1181180
F McAseyBeijing1001000
L ShueyCape Town4894890
R ConcaRio de Janeiro2702700
J CarlisleCape Town2562560
A McDonald-TipungwutiTokyo3183180
J StephensonCape Town2642640
Da TuckerNew Delhi2542540
C SpargoLondon1591590
B SierNew Delhi1811810
J PetruccelleLondon1341340
Z GuthrieCape Town1011010
J BegleyMoscow1171170
D RobertonCairo1001000
Z SmithPacific1001000
L GreenwoodRio de Janeiro1761760
M HartleyBuenos Aires1001000
T GarnerCape Town1001000
M HoreLondon1781780
W DrewLondon1751750
S NaismithPNL1001000
T BroomheadNew Delhi1001000
Le YoungChristchurch1001000
C EllisCairo1001000
J AllisonPacific1001000
C WagnerRio de Janeiro1351350
N CockatooNew Delhi1001000
J SchoenfeldLondon1001000
C BurgessTokyo1211210
C CoxCape Town1001000
CM BrownBeijing1001000
R AbbottNew York1001000
C ConstableMexico City1001000
L AustinNew York1001000
K BrooksbyBuenos Aires1001000
P NaishMoscow1001000
D FortNew York1001000
R WestSeoul1001000
C JiathPNL1001000
F WatsonBeijing1001000
T CampbellDublin1001000
M HingeNew Delhi1001000
S SkinnerToronto1001000
Der SmithSeoul1001000
C Coleman-JonesBeijing1001000
Ja DawsonNew Delhi1001000
K ChandlerSeoul1001000
D MinchingtonCairo1001000
C GrahamSeoul1001000
B Zerk-ThatcherTokyo1001000
C MooreMexico City1001000
Dy MooreMoscow1001000
Br AinsworthMoscow1001000
D LanglandsChristchurch1001000
J SteinBuenos Aires1001000
R GarthwaiteMoscow1001000
J AtleyBuenos Aires1001000
H BennellBuenos Aires1001000
B LynchToronto1001000
J GarnerChristchurch1001000
W BuzzaCape Town1001000
L StockerChristchurch1001000
I CummingRio de Janeiro1001000
T SparrowCairo1001000
K DunkleyCairo1001000
Ar SmithNew Delhi1001000
La YoungLondon1001000
J JonesNew York1001000
W FramptonTokyo1001000
O MarkovCairo1001000
P WilsonBeijing1001000
F GreeneToronto1001000
J HeronBuenos Aires1001000
M Eagles#N/A1001000
K MutchPNL1001000
W WalkerDublin1001000
S SimpsonNew Delhi1001000
T MurphyChristchurch1001000
T De KoningRio de Janeiro1001000
D JoyceDublin1001000
N MurphyPacific1001000
H MacreadieDublin1001000
C PolsonBuenos Aires1001000
C IdunPacific1001000
J CarterLondon1001000
H GoddardPNL1001000
R GardnerBerlin1001000
K HaydenBeijing1001000
Jam BellToronto1001000
Z SprouleBerlin1001000
D CameronPNL1001000
R StoddartSeoul1001000
N ShipleyNew Delhi1001000
B DavisBerlin1001000
J McInerneyToronto1001000
C PorterBeijing1001000
Jackson RossBeijing1001000
S AlabakisBeijing1001000
A BradtkeBerlin1001000
Harrison JonesToronto1001000
J MaibaumBerlin1001000
L FoleyBerlin1001000
J ButtsSeoul1001000
M OwiesBuenos Aires1001000
N KreugerBuenos Aires1001000
N GownDublin1001000
B KhamisCairo1001000
J KennerleyCairo1001000
M WalkerCairo1001000
M FlynnCairo1001000
T JoyceCairo1001000
B SchlensogCape Town1001000
C BallendenCape Town1001000
J MaddenTokyo1001000
W HamillCape Town1001000
Z FootCape Town1001000
A BosenavulagiToronto1001000
C McFadyenSeoul1001000
E SmithChristchurch1001000
J PayneChristchurch1001000
K BriggsChristchurch1001000
T BrownChristchurch1001000
B MillerDublin1001000
B SilvagniDublin1001000
E McHenryDublin1001000
F O'DwyerDublin1001000
J KoschitzkeDublin1001000
T XerriDublin1001000
H BrayshawLondon1001000
J BytelLondon1001000
J SweetLondon1001000
T BerryLondon1001000
T CoxNew York1001000