AXV OFFICIAL TRADE THREAD (2017/2018)

[upthemaidens]

Confucius say..     Advertise your young guns before selling and better offers may come your way.

Having a salary Cap will help stop top teams from loading up on starting depth, which will mean they can't sell it for high draft players.
    Which will mean it stops them from snowballing into an unbeatable list.    It's the easiest fix if you want a more competetive comp.

[Rids]

Easy for people to sit back and complain. At the end of the day it is up to the coach to make trades to try and improve their respective teams. Dongs have a surplus of fwds and defs. They also have no mids. I am not sure what people want Atto to do here. The only players of currency in trades are young players. Atley and Swallow are only 25 years old as well. Swallow was a former number 1 pick. Atley averaged more than Dunkley last year. Swallow greatly improves the Dongs midfield where they might have Jesse Lonergan as part of their best XV. I also want to add that I stayed out of the discussions of the renegotiated trade as I saw it being a conflict with my admin duties. I just passed on messages as I was directed.

Last year the number 1 draft pick was traded for a 30 year old ruck in Stefan Martin by the Dongs which was an awful trade yet no one said a word.

On the Crabs side it hurts the depth. Say what you want about Dunkley but we tried trading him in other comps and not 1 person wanted him. Bowes might have been a high draft pick but he is far from established in the Suns best 22 and he showed very little in his first year. There is risk involved with both of these kids. People forget that Swallow was actually a number 1 pick.

I would be interested to see if anyone has actually messaged Atto and made any offers and what were the offers.

The other thing is that Atto has just taken over the team. Surely it is in the best interests of the team for him to work out which way he wants to go with it. He is trying hard to get a more balanced team across the positions from what I have gathered in our discussions.

As for the comp, I actually think activity has improved greatly. Nas and I have spent a lot of time trying to keep threads up to date and encouraging people to contribute. The way the drafting went shows this. I personally think AXV has been moving in the right direction.

I have always been open and proactive when it has come to all issues. I think it is great people speaking their minds on the AXV threads and encourage it to continue.

[Rids]

One last thing I will add.

There was only 2 wins separating the top 6 teams in 2017 in the AXV comp. And then the Strikers went from 8th to 3rd in the finals. Crabs have only won 1 Premiership to date. I think the comp is a lot more even then what people are making out. Anyone from the top 8 can win on any given year. It drpends on luck mostly with injuries and suspensions. Just ask the Crocs who many thought would win many titles.

[fanTCfool]

I'm not sure I understand the Stefan Martin argument, if the trade was so poor, why did competition admins not step in?  :-X
As for the trade, it's a bad deal for a struggling team and needs to be reassessed from the ground up.
Echoing UTM's sentiments, I'd encourage our new coach to advertise on the open market to get the best deal for the players that are to be traded, rather than just dealing with coaches that are close allegiances. I'm sure 90% of the competition would be interested in Dunkley and Bowes if they knew they were to be traded.

[Rids]

I'm not sure I understand the Stefan Martin argument, if the trade was so poor, why did competition admins not step in?  :-X
As for the trade, it's a bad deal for a struggling team and needs to be reassessed from the ground up.
Echoing UTM's sentiments, I'd encourage our new coach to advertise on the open market to get the best deal for the players that are to be traded, rather than just dealing with coaches that are close allegiances. I'm sure 90% of the competition would be interested in Dunkley and Bowes if they knew they were to be traded.

No idea why the admins (I was not an admin at the time) did not step in but losing Andy McGrath and Lin Jong/Josh Smith/Hugh Greenwood/Braydon Preuss (all available in the rookie draft) for Stefan Martin for a bottom team is awful. No matter which way you look at it.

This is what the trade was:

TRADE #9
UAE Tigers Give: Stefan Martin.
HK Dongs Give: ND #1 + RD #1

That is now in the past. What is done then is done.

At the end of the day people should be now messaging Atto and throwing 'better' offers at him for Dunkley or Bowes. It is up to the coaches whether they want to advertise players they are selling or to take offers they deem as fair and reasonable.

I really don't care any more what happens with this trade. The whole process has been awful. Nostra and I are more than willing to walk away from it. We haven't done anything wrong here but enquire about a player then make an offer that got accepted then rejected. We then did the same thing as a revised offer. Not sure what people actually want us to do here. We cannot be any fairer than what we have been.

[upthemaidens]

S.Martin trade was a poor one, considering age and were the Dongs were at.
  The only trades that should set a precedent are the ones ruled over by the current Admins. not ones from the past.

[Rids]

S.Martin trade was a poor one, considering age and were the Dongs were at.
  The only trades that should set a precedent are the ones ruled over by the current Admins. not ones from the past.

This I agree with. And here is a trade that was approved with reasoning by the current admins which should be set as a precedent.

TRADE #8
Bangladesh give - James Aish + Aaron Francis + Nat 22
Turkey give - Nat 11 + Nat 76

Revised trade: Approved
Bangladesh give: James Aish + Aaron Francis + Nat 22
Turkey give: Nat 11 + R10 + Nat 76

Reasoning: This trade is not even but trades do not need to be even to pass. A lot of discussion was had around this trade and whether it should pass. At the end of the day, it does come down to the opinion of the coaches involved. One coach clearly doesn't rate Aaron Francis and/or James Aish (note: Francis was a direct swap for Tom McDonald in another XV league) and feels that the pick upgrade and rook pick 10 will net them better options than the 2 previous top 10 AFL draft selections as well as nat pick 22. Passing this trade as goodwill for the teams involved.


Bangladesh are not a top team. Turkey is. Some could very well argue that Turkey is a top 2 team. Yet 2 former top 10 selections were originally traded for an upgrade of nat 22 to nat 11. Rook 10 was then added and the trade was passed but it was heavily debated and I was against this. It was decided that the trade would be passed as goodwill for the coaches involved as the Bears had a new coach who should determine the direction they wanted to head in for their new team. This is the trade that should have been used as a precedent.

[fanTCfool]

I'd love to hear Atto's thought process on this one, but I think the sentiments of the neutral coaches are pretty clear

[Rids]

I'd love to hear Atto's thought process on this one, but I think the sentiments of the neutral coaches are pretty clear

It is not up to the neutral coaches to determine if a trade passes or not. By all means, everyone can voice their thoughts and are encouraged to do so. But at the ens of the day the trade needs to be posted and confirmed by the coaches involved and then ruled on by the mods.

As explained, there has been a precedent set now of a team in a rebuild trading quality young players who were early draft selections to a top team. At least with the Dongs trade they know who they are getting as they traded for established players  who will instantly improve their team and make them more competitive.

I am not sold the same can be said for the above trade.

[JBs-Hawks]

Trade voting works in WXV  ;)

[upthemaidens]

Francis was taken at #10 two years ago, he hasn't really lost much value(especially in a poor draft).  #11 for him is close.
   The N#22 seems an overpayment by Bangladesh,   Francis+Aish  for N#11+R#10  would of been around the mark.

[Rids]

Francis was taken at #10 two years ago, he hasn't really lost much value(especially in a poor draft).  #11 for him is close.
   The N#22 seems an overpayment by Bangladesh,   Francis+Aish  for N#11+R#10  would of been around the mark.

Which is exactly how I saw it as well. Yet I gave the benefit of the doubt to the new coach as the other mod was happy with the trade as it was.

At the end of the day the precedent has now been set.

[fanTCfool]

Trade voting works in WXV  ;)

[Rids]

Trade voting can be something the league votes on for 2019. For the time being however, we have the current process.

[nostradamus]

I've been holding back from commenting on this one as coach of the Crab's, but think it's time.

I've been disappointed by the apparent inconsistencies in what is deemed fair or unfair when it comes to trading by some coaches. Particularly those involved in the Stef Martin trade and the Francis/Aish trades (co-incidentally involving the Dongs too), which were far less balanced than the Bowes one on any scale. However they choose to stand the moral high ground now when it suits.

As has been stated many times by both Rids and myself, our basic trading philosophy is that trades need to be a win/win for the teams involved. This doesn't mean they have to be even, just within reason. Many times we have done trades that have been a clear win on paper for the other team, but it suited what our team needed, so all good. It's impossible for trades to be totally level, hell even ones that appear fair one year can turn out to be far from that after time. But that is the beauty of this comp, we as coaches, make our own choices and succeed or fail based on them, whether they be trading or drafting.