WXV Rules Discussion 2017

[Ricochet]

Yeah to clarify just in case, there would only be penalties if your list lodgement (list vacanies included as 100k) was below the minimum cap, not during the trade period.

We can definitely discuss those penalties now

Loss of premiership points

4 Premiership points AND 1st NAT Pick

It'd need to be a consistent penalty. Can't punish via draft picks because they may have traded them all away. Would also be an inconsistent penalty, as someone could lose N1 and someone could lose N80 (extreme example I know). Could say you lose your first round pick for the following season, but again, someone could lose N1 and someone could lose N18. Premiership points is equal for everyone, so that's why it appeals to me. If someone can think of something else though, that'd be consistent across any team, then speak up, cause I can't think of anything else atm :P

Draft picks reflect where a team is at though. If a grand finalist (pick 18) has traded below the minimum cap (unlikely), it might be a good thing lol. And any top 10 pick is going to be super valuable to the team that holds it

[meow meow]

Yeah to clarify just in case, there would only be penalties if your list lodgement (list vacanies included as 100k) was below the minimum cap, not during the trade period.

We can definitely discuss those penalties now

Loss of premiership points

Loss of life.

[GoLions]

Teams that are below the cap probably don't care about premiership points too much as they are rebuilding / tanking. A 2nd round pick the following year would be a strong enough deterrent to make sure they stay above

Toronto went from 2nd last to almost making a prelim. Teams can turn it around in the space of a year, regardless of their position on the ladder. A loss of 4 points if they slipped under last off-season would have seen them miss the 8 this year.

2nd round pick for the following year would mean absolutely nothing tbqh.

[Nige]

Disappointed that 13 didn't change tbh.

It would have added an appropriate amount of spice to this wonderful comp.

Wouldn't be nice if you copped a few injuries and then had to flood/attack plus have a def/fwd as a Utility, meaning you have a perfectly healthy mid as an emergency simply because you couldn't start two mids on the Interchange

Eh, that's where I think it would actually make it interesting.

A lot of teams like to have 6 or 7 strong mids to beef up their interchange and have a solid mid emg, almost making it 4-6-1-4.

Personally, I've always been in favour of having a well rounded/balanced list. I just reckon some teams like to just load up in the mids therefore compromising their depth in defs/rucks/fwds and allow the mid firepower to compensate.

Also, I don't see it as 'rewarding' a lack of mid depth at all. I just think it adds a bit more strategy as such to list management, ensuring you can adapt and build a good list is all part of the comp and the challenging of coaching a team in this game.

[GoLions]

See, this is why I voted against going under the min cap, because I knew it would cause issues already :P

[GoLions]

How about, if you voted to change the min cap rule and you go under, you lose your future first rounder and 1 premiership point. If you voted to keep as is, you get no punishment :)

[Nige]

Teams that are below the cap probably don't care about premiership points too much as they are rebuilding / tanking. A 2nd round pick the following year would be a strong enough deterrent to make sure they stay above

Toronto went from 2nd last to almost making a prelim. Teams can turn it around in the space of a year, regardless of their position on the ladder. A loss of 4 points if they slipped under last off-season would have seen them miss the 8 this year.

2nd round pick for the following year would mean absolutely nothing tbqh.

Yeah I agree. The same case can almost be made for Cairo, we basically turned it around in the space of a year as well. Yeah sure, we ended up like 13th, but we were top 8 for a bulk of the year when basically everyone had written us off for 2017. Just had one of the worst 6 week runs I've seen in any comp haha.

Competent coaching can easily fix any list, which is genuinely why I think termination (as harsh as it sounds) isn't a terrible idea. I mean, it's pretty clear what you have to do, and if you end up not hitting the brief, that's your own fault and only doing detriment to your own team (as well just creating an easy-beat team in the process).

[Ricochet]

Teams that are below the cap probably don't care about premiership points too much as they are rebuilding / tanking. A 2nd round pick the following year would be a strong enough deterrent to make sure they stay above

Toronto went from 2nd last to almost making a prelim. Teams can turn it around in the space of a year, regardless of their position on the ladder. A loss of 4 points if they slipped under last off-season would have seen them miss the 8 this year.

2nd round pick for the following year would mean absolutely nothing tbqh.

There were also about 8 teams that were below them on cap value prior to the draft.

I agree 2nd rounder isn't probably enough. Needs to be a deterrent and something those teams would value highly

[GoLions]

Teams that are below the cap probably don't care about premiership points too much as they are rebuilding / tanking. A 2nd round pick the following year would be a strong enough deterrent to make sure they stay above

Toronto went from 2nd last to almost making a prelim. Teams can turn it around in the space of a year, regardless of their position on the ladder. A loss of 4 points if they slipped under last off-season would have seen them miss the 8 this year.

2nd round pick for the following year would mean absolutely nothing tbqh.

Yeah I agree. The same case can almost be made for Cairo, we basically turned it around in the space of a year as well. Yeah sure, we ended up like 13th, but we were top 8 for a bulk of the year when basically everyone had written us off for 2017. Just had one of the worst 6 week runs I've seen in any comp haha.

Competent coaching can easily fix any list, which is genuinely why I think termination (as harsh as it sounds) isn't a terrible idea. I mean, it's pretty clear what you have to do, and if you end up not hitting the brief, that's your own fault and only doing detriment to your own team (as well just creating an easy-beat team in the process).

I think termination is a tad harsh, but perhaps it counts for like 2 warnings or something.

[RaisyDaisy]

Disappointed that 13 didn't change tbh.

It would have added an appropriate amount of spice to this wonderful comp.

Wouldn't be nice if you copped a few injuries and then had to flood/attack plus have a def/fwd as a Utility, meaning you have a perfectly healthy mid as an emergency simply because you couldn't start two mids on the Interchange

Eh, that's where I think it would actually make it interesting.

A lot of teams like to have 6 or 7 strong mids to beef up their interchange and have a solid mid emg, almost making it 4-6-1-4.

Personally, I've always been in favour of having a well rounded/balanced list. I just reckon some teams like to just load up in the mids therefore compromising their depth in defs/rucks/fwds and allow the mid firepower to compensate.

Also, I don't see it as 'rewarding' a lack of mid depth at all. I just think it adds a bit more strategy as such to list management, ensuring you can adapt and build a good list is all part of the comp and the challenging of coaching a team in this game.

Defenders and forwards are already hard enough to get and cost a lot - this will make it even harder :P

[Toga]

Chuck 13 straight in the trash can,  no need to reward lack of mid depth.

[RaisyDaisy]

All this talk about what the penalty should be for a team that ends under the cap

There has to be close to zero percent of a chance it actually happens

[iZander]

Teams that are below the cap probably don't care about premiership points too much as they are rebuilding / tanking. A 2nd round pick the following year would be a strong enough deterrent to make sure they stay above

Toronto went from 2nd last to almost making a prelim. Teams can turn it around in the space of a year, regardless of their position on the ladder. A loss of 4 points if they slipped under last off-season would have seen them miss the 8 this year.

2nd round pick for the following year would mean absolutely nothing tbqh.

Yeah I agree. The same case can almost be made for Cairo, we basically turned it around in the space of a year as well. Yeah sure, we ended up like 13th, but we were top 8 for a bulk of the year when basically everyone had written us off for 2017. Just had one of the worst 6 week runs I've seen in any comp haha.

Competent coaching can easily fix any list, which is genuinely why I think termination (as harsh as it sounds) isn't a terrible idea. I mean, it's pretty clear what you have to do, and if you end up not hitting the brief, that's your own fault and only doing detriment to your own team (as well just creating an easy-beat team in the process).

I think termination is a tad harsh, but perhaps it counts for like 2 warnings or something.

You're right, you can go from last to finals in one year, but Cairo had pick 1 and 2 last year so something tells me they had to build a team up for more than 1 year before doing that.

[Toga]

All this talk about what the penalty should be for a team that ends under the cap

There has to be close to zero percent of a chance it actually happens

Agreed. This is why I don't think a significantly harsh penalty (like loss of 1st rounder) should be an issue.

If you competently manage your list, like I think everyone in WXV can, then this is a non-issue.

[GoLions]

Teams that are below the cap probably don't care about premiership points too much as they are rebuilding / tanking. A 2nd round pick the following year would be a strong enough deterrent to make sure they stay above

Toronto went from 2nd last to almost making a prelim. Teams can turn it around in the space of a year, regardless of their position on the ladder. A loss of 4 points if they slipped under last off-season would have seen them miss the 8 this year.

2nd round pick for the following year would mean absolutely nothing tbqh.

There were also about 8 teams that were below them on cap value prior to the draft.

I agree 2nd rounder isn't probably enough. Needs to be a deterrent and something those teams would value highly

Was just showing that it's not necessarily the bottom teams that this could happen to