WXV Rules Discussion 2017

[Ringo]

^ not bad. Why 12? Why not 10 like in the fantasy games, or 11 since it's half the season?

Picked 12 as Half season + 1 game that is all.

[Nige]

I'll be the first to admit I flowering hate numbers (you'll notice that I usually agree with posts with well written text-based replies) so a lot of this goes way over my head and I basically skim it and go with the flow, but at the same time I do wanna understand exactly what everyone is harping on about in the past god knows how many posts.

Dunno if this would make sense or explain it all, but if someone has the time, could they break it down really simply? Is it possible to compare maybe like a few teams at different stages like Mexico (good team on the way down), Dublin (team that's still sitting pretty), Cairo (team that looks to be on the way up) to see how each is impacted by Holz's proposal vs the current cap?

[Ringo]

Reading through comments and to throw another into the mix if a player has been at the one franchise for 5 years or more they receive a 20% discount on their value. % discount to be agreed.

[Holz]

I'll be the first to admit I flowering hate numbers (you'll notice that I usually agree with posts with well written text-based replies) so a lot of this goes way over my head and I basically skim it and go with the flow, but at the same time I do wanna understand exactly what everyone is harping on about in the past god knows how many posts.

Dunno if this would make sense or explain it all, but if someone has the time, could they break it down really simply? Is it possible to compare maybe like a few teams at different stages like Mexico (good team on the way down), Dublin (team that's still sitting pretty), Cairo (team that looks to be on the way up) to see how each is impacted by Holz's proposal vs the current cap?

I cant really do that as i dont have access to ossies formula. The basis of it is i want to small adjustments.

1. Ossie Formula is based on a average of 50% of this seasons score and then 25% of the previous 2 years. So the most simple example is he has Josh Kelly marginally cheaper then Heath Shaw and Matt Priddis more expensive then the two of them. where are as given they have played a full season my formula Kelly is the most expensive, then priddis then shaw.

If i was to break it down in terms of teams I would say. Mexico would fall in cap under my changes because as you have said they are in decline so the likes of Heath Shaw will fall in cap space. Seoul will go up a little bit at they have lots of young guns like Kelly who will go up to their correct value.

2. I give a slight discount for players over 28, because they generally are in decline so to assume a older player might dip 3% in average the next year to me is a pretty fair indicator. The major benefit of this is aging teams like Mexico dont have their main trading chips in players like Heath Shaw costing loads under the cap, so that if they chose to move them on then lots of teams can bid for them as they arent overpriced in the cap, so rather then trading them way to cheap (as only a few teams can get them) or holding on to them they are able to get actually good assets for them so they dont slip soo far that they become noncompetitive. As it stands Meow is the main person who can pick up older players as his team is no good but he wants to keep bringing in older players.

Got to remember this will drop the overall cap that teams have so its not like teams can load up with older guys and dominate its not a major change.

[Holz]

Reading through comments and to throw another into the mix if a player has been at the one franchise for 5 years or more they receive a 20% discount on their value. % discount to be agreed.

seems highly unfair putting that rule in as people would have traded differently if this was a rule. Trading is not a bad thing, all the top teams have traded heavily except maybe Seoul, who have killed it in the draft.

The teams that remain stagnant most years seem to be the teams that never end up being competitive.

[Purple 77]

I really want to force these teams to get some salary back in their team

Please do this.

Also I think if a player has retired officially in the AFL, they cant be traded at all. Lets stamp out that loophole.

Yep, that's a good one.

Reading through comments and to throw another into the mix if a player has been at the one franchise for 5 years or more they receive a 20% discount on their value. % discount to be agreed.

Really not a fan, kinda just dodges the point of the cap IMO



Apologies for saying otherwise, but ossies' formula equally accounts for the previous 3 years i.e. 33% each for 2015, 2016 & 2017.

His formula is set out in last years' thread somewhere.



I cannot stress enough that new ideas for caps need at least a 50 player sample. To judge off 10 players is dangerously limited, it's 1.2% of the comp.

But really, really good discussion so far.

[Purple 77]

Also note that if we introduce discounts, that'll be decreasing the max and min caps to some degree.

[Nige]

I cannot stress enough that new ideas for caps need at least a 50 player sample. To judge off 10 players is dangerously limited, it's 1.2% of the comp.

In that case, my suggestion of using 3 teams would lend itself to this.

3 teams with 18 players (emergencies included) would demonstrate it and give a good mix of players.

I guess someone who really wants a new version of the cap has some work to do.

[Purple 77]

As it stands currently, this is how the cap is made (in my words)

Averages are spoken in terms of the total average of the past 3 seasons (total points scored divided by total games played)

Games are spoken in terms of the total games played in the past 3 seasons

If you played less than 10 games

Salary = 100k

If you have played 10 or more games

The players average is inflated by multiplying it by 2000.

This number is added to, by a durability value. This is games played, divided by 66 (total games you could play). This number is multiplied with the above base salary, and is added to it, adding a cost to those whom stay on the park.

Similarly, this number is added to, by a premium value. This is the amount of games the player has scored a ton or better, divided by 66 (total games you could play). This number is multiplied with the above adjusted salary, and is added to it, adding a cost to those whom score 100s.



Does that help?

[Purple 77]

So, with Dangerfield

Games played = 61 out of 62 (4 games remaining)
Average = 128.34

Premium factor = 51/62 = 0.84

Durability factor = 61/62 = 0.98

Played more than 10 games? Yes.

So 128.34 x 2000 = 256680

Durability modification = 0.98 x 256680 = 251546.4 = 251546 (rounded)

New salary = 256680 + 251546 = 508226

Premium modification = 0.84 x 508226 = 426910 (rounded)

New salary = 508226 + 426910 = 935,136 = 935,000 (rounded)

[Nige]

Now that's maths I understand.

[Purple 77]

I threw this up together to demonstrate your "3% for every year above 28" change

Might be a flaw... but I think we're OK. These are all the players that would be effected.

Player	Current	Age Discounted
S Pendlebury	$782,000	$758,000
T Goldstein	$723,000	$702,000
JP Kennedy	$721,000	$699,000
M Priddis	$676,000	$595,000
J Selwood	$672,000	$652,000
R Gray	$653,000	$633,000
H Shaw	$600,000	$546,000
S Mitchell	$594,000	$487,000
D Mundy	$593,000	$522,000
G Ablett	$579,000	$492,000
B Goddard	$567,000	$499,000
S Martin	$567,000	$533,000
L Montagna	$562,000	$478,000
S Mumford	$552,000	$502,000
K Simpson	$551,000	$468,000
J Lewis	$538,000	$490,000
N Jones	$532,000	$517,000
S Jacobs	$530,000	$514,000
M Murphy	$522,000	$490,000
L Franklin	$501,000	$471,000
JJ Kennedy	$493,000	$478,000
M Boyd	$491,000	$403,000
N Riewoldt	$490,000	$401,000
T Boak	$488,000	$473,000
D Armitage	$483,000	$469,000
B Deledio	$483,000	$454,000
S Burgoyne	$478,000	$392,000
A Sandilands	$477,000	$391,000
B Houli	$474,000	$460,000
S Grigg	$474,000	$460,000
K Jack	$472,000	$444,000
J Westhoff	$469,000	$441,000
B Vince	$463,000	$422,000
M Barlow	$456,000	$443,000
L Hodge	$454,000	$386,000
L Picken	$441,000	$401,000
J McVeigh	$434,000	$382,000
A Swallow	$423,000	$398,000
S Thompson	$417,000	$342,000
S Higgins	$413,000	$400,000
E Betts	$413,000	$388,000
P Ryder	$399,000	$387,000
R Griffen	$392,000	$357,000
T Hawkins	$390,000	$378,000
J Gibson	$390,000	$332,000
J Waite	$388,000	$318,000
S Hurn	$385,000	$373,000
B Stanton	$383,000	$348,000
R Douglas	$378,000	$355,000
M Rischitelli	$372,000	$339,000
K Tippett	$371,000	$349,000
Ja Roughead	$369,000	$346,000
S Johnson	$365,000	$299,000
D Wells	$365,000	$321,000
H Taylor	$363,000	$330,000
M LeCras	$362,000	$341,000
R Murphy	$358,000	$283,000
H Grundy	$354,000	$322,000
D Petrie	$348,000	$285,000
J Harbrow	$348,000	$337,000
G Birchall	$342,000	$332,000
J Watson	$335,000	$295,000
I Maric	$333,000	$303,000
Dany Pearce	$330,000	$300,000
A Mackie	$329,000	$289,000
L Spurr	$325,000	$305,000
P Puopolo	$313,000	$304,000
M Suckling	$310,000	$301,000
M Johnson	$309,000	$272,000
SD Thompson	$292,000	$266,000
M Baguley	$291,000	$274,000
G Ibbotson	$285,000	$277,000
M Rosa	$283,000	$266,000
J Geary	$280,000	$271,000
S Wellingham	$276,000	$268,000
S Gilbert	$274,000	$257,000
S Dempster	$269,000	$229,000
C Pedersen	$265,000	$249,000
T Dickson	$256,000	$248,000
T Varcoe	$255,000	$247,000
L Dunn	$251,000	$236,000
N Smith	$248,000	$240,000
D Mackay	$248,000	$241,000
J White	$247,000	$239,000
T Cloke	$235,000	$221,000
D Thomas	$235,000	$221,000
L Thomas	$230,000	$223,000
M Leuenberger	$228,000	$221,000
T Goldsack	$228,000	$214,000
S Butler	$221,000	$201,000
N Krakouer	$216,000	$209,000
D Morris	$212,000	$173,000
C Garland	$211,000	$204,000
S Rowe	$211,000	$205,000
S Hampson	$208,000	$202,000
Ja Kelly	$206,000	$175,000
A Monfries	$201,000	$189,000
J Giles	$197,000	$191,000
Si White	$196,000	$190,000
D Armfield	$194,000	$182,000
H Ballantyne	$189,000	$178,000
J Griffin	$184,000	$168,000
H Lumumba	$180,000	$169,000
Ma White	$173,000	$163,000
E MacKenzie	$164,000	$159,000
A Silvagni	$148,000	$144,000
T Mzungu	$143,000	$130,000
H Hocking	$109,000	$106,000

Withholding opinion for now, just presenting the stats.

Team	Current	Age Discounted
Beijing Thunder	$11,005,000	10953000
Berlin Brewers	$11,196,000	10862000
Buenos Aires Armadillos	$9,346,000	9292000
Cairo Sands	$9,779,000	9657000
Cape Town Cobras	$9,962,000	9860000
Christchurch Saints	$11,096,000	10410000
Dublin Destroyers	$11,109,000	11023000
London Royals	$10,115,000	10077000
Mexico City Suns	$10,920,000	10511000
Moscow Spetsnaz	$10,378,000	10346000
New Delhi Tigers	$11,303,000	11176000
New York Revolution	$11,153,000	10833000
Pacific Islanders	$11,816,000	11709000
PNL Reindeers	$9,824,000	9652000
Rio de Janeiro Jaguars	$11,461,000	11067000
Seoul Magpies	$10,574,000	10525000
Tokyo Samurai	$9,857,000	9835000
Toronto Wolves	$10,389,000	10272000
AVERAGE	$10,626,833	$10,447,778
AVERAGE + 5%	$11,158,175	$10,970,167
AVERAGE - 15%	$9,032,808	$8,880,611

[Holz]

looks pretty good to me, as expected no major changes

Dublin goes from 49k under the cap to 52k over the cap. So no bias for Dublin to get this going.

Mexico seem to be the biggest beneficiary 238k under cap to 459k under cap. Means they have more leaverage in trade talks.

Seoul goes from 584k under cap to 445k under cap. So no major blow to them.


Seems to be an improvement to me that Mexico now has a lower cap then Seoul. No team is massively advantaged or disadvantaged just a slight improvement.

[meow meow]

Age discount shouldn't apply as early as 28. Simmo, Heath Shaw, Murphy, I'm sure there are many others too who have had their best year(s) after 28. Maybe 31 year olds should attract a little discount, but maybe they don't need them if the preceeding year is going to be given extra weight. Heath Shaw is no certainty to drop again next year.

[Ringo]

Still really prefer current year rather than over 3 years. All cap rules will have flaws but think should be based on current year only with adjustments for those that do not play or play minimal games.

Also agree with MM on age discount - Most mids will be in there prime after 28 eg Danger will be 28 next year and I am sure he will not drop off so maybe age discount for players over 30.