A disgrace.

[JBs-Hawks]

Please one winning gf beats 10 prelim losses! Your obviously too young to remember the feeling!

[Purple 77]

In a 10 year period, I would take 9 spoons and a premiership over 10 finals series personally. But I'm kinda living that anyway :P

[Dudge]

In a 10 year period, I would take 9 spoons and a premiership over 10 finals series personally. But I'm kinda living that anyway :P

Agree Purps, 2004 was great, but no finals since, or another Premiership = Premiership hands down

[Holz]

Please one winning gf beats 10 prelim losses! Your obviously too young to remember the feeling!

guess it depends on what type of person you are.

If your good all year then you can enjoy that all year. If your win the thing its just a extra week or two of enjoyment. I hate to watch my team get killed everyweek.

Your a hawks fan so have had alot of sucess. If you supported a club that has recently been down the bottom you might have another tune.

[Ringo]

Have not been involved in the discussion much so here is my 2 cents worth.

You support your team through ups and downs in the long run things turn around,

Prior to Brisbane coming into the competition I supported North Melboune so seen some of the hidings of the 60's prior to their premierships of 1975 and 1977.

When Brisbane came into the competition had to endure some of the Bears hidings of the 80's and 90's and was even at Carrara to witness the highest losing margin of 164 in 1992 to Geelong.  The struggling Bears merged with a similarly struggling Fitzroy  in 1997 and won 3 flags from 2001 - 2003.

So basically I am saying most clubs will have ups and downs but it does turn around and you ride the ups and down as a supporter. Whilst some of the defeats are hard to take I am happy as a supporter if players put in effort. (Last year there were times when I think Lions did not even reach this standard). I hope to add to my 5 premierships won by my clubs over the next few years.

As for the topic we only play the one preseason game in Qld at Carrara so only one chance to observe the team.

[nas]

Have not been involved in the discussion much so here is my 2 cents worth.

You support your team through ups and downs in the long run things turn around,

Prior to Brisbane coming into the competition I supported North Melboune so seen some of the hidings of the 60's prior to their premierships of 1975 and 1977.

When Brisbane came into the competition had to endure some of the Bears hidings of the 80's and 90's and was even at Carrara to witness the highest losing margin of 164 in 1992 to Geelong.  The struggling Bears merged with a similarly struggling Fitzroy  in 1997 and won 3 flags from 2001 - 2003.

So basically I am saying most clubs will have ups and downs but it does turn around and you ride the ups and down as a supporter. Whilst some of the defeats are hard to take I am happy as a supporter if players put in effort. (Last year there were times when I think Lions did not even reach this standard). I hope to add to my 5 premierships won by my clubs over the next few years.

As for the topic we only play the one preseason game in Qld at Carrara so only one chance to observe the team.

Going?

[Ringo]

Have not been involved in the discussion much so here is my 2 cents worth.

You support your team through ups and downs in the long run things turn around,

Prior to Brisbane coming into the competition I supported North Melboune so seen some of the hidings of the 60's prior to their premierships of 1975 and 1977.

When Brisbane came into the competition had to endure some of the Bears hidings of the 80's and 90's and was even at Carrara to witness the highest losing margin of 164 in 1992 to Geelong.  The struggling Bears merged with a similarly struggling Fitzroy  in 1997 and won 3 flags from 2001 - 2003.

So basically I am saying most clubs will have ups and downs but it does turn around and you ride the ups and down as a supporter. Whilst some of the defeats are hard to take I am happy as a supporter if players put in effort. (Last year there were times when I think Lions did not even reach this standard). I hope to add to my 5 premierships won by my clubs over the next few years.

As for the topic we only play the one preseason game in Qld at Carrara so only one chance to observe the team.

Going?

My mistake game is at Kombumerri Park, Merrimac  was originally advertised as Metricon. So have to reconsider.

[Dudge]

Don't try and pull the wool over us Power supporters Ringo lol

Only joking mate, big day :)

[djbics]

This is a really interesting discussion, but it's almost impossible to define when and where records should be kept from due to the multiple changes over such a long period of time.  Consider the following:

1897 - VFL formed as a breakaway from the older VFA (Collingwood,Carlton, Essendon, Fitzroy, Geelong, Melbourne, South Melbourne and St Kilda)
1908 - First Expansion (Richmond/University to make 10 in league)
1914 - First Club departure (University)
1925 - Second Expansion (Footscray,Hawthorn and North Melbourne/12 teams)
1982 - First Club Relocation and name change (South Melbourne to Sydney)
1987 - Third Expansion (West Coast and Brisbane/14 team league)
1990 - Name change to AFL
1991 - Fourth Expansion (Adelaide/15 teams)
1995 - Fifth Expansion (Fremantle/16 teams)
1997 - First Merger and Sixth Expansion (Fitzroy/Brisbane and Port Adelaide/16 teams
2011 - Seventh Expansion (Gold Coast/17 teams)
2012 - Eighth Expansion (Greater Western Sydney/18 teams)

I know this is all common knowledge but I think it shows how many changes have happened to the league in it's long history and various guises.  Obviously it only charts the VFL/AFL timeline, with the VFA, SANFL, WAFL all also having major effects on its make-up.  It also doesn't show the affect of The World Wars, the centralization of suburban grounds vs VFL Park/Docklands stadium, semi-professionalism, full professionalism, abolition of Under 19s/reserve sides, sponsorship, sports science etc etc.

What does it mean?  Not much really to be fair.  Technically, the AFL as it stands today can really only count back to 2012 as this was the first time it contained 18 teams.  Personally, I think this would be a slap in the face to the efforts of many teams prior, but isn't any less fair than only counting since 1990 or 1987 and is probably more accurate. 

The Port situation is an interesting one, as they are the only non-Victorian established team to gain entry into the AFL.  The precedence with other established Victorian expansion teams is that they don't get to count their VFA flags, but obviously the counter to this is that the SANFL was a far stronger competition than the VFA and in turn was arguably closer in standard to the old VFL.

Sorry for subjecting you to the ramblings of a late 30-something Melbourne supporter, one that has been to two Grand Finals his team has been in, 2000 (vs Essendon, ouch!) and 1988 (vs Hawthorn, double ouch!!), was at VFL Park when Jimmy Stynes ran over the mark in the Prelim Final, almost saw his team become the dawks in the 1996 failed merger, and seen way more losing seasons than winning ones since buying my first membership in 1987.  In the same time i've also got to marvel over Flowers sublime skills, Lyons class, Vineys toughness (both father and son, probably cant count Jay), Stynes journey, Jackovich/Farmer/Jurrah's mercurial talent, the aerial exploits of Steve Smith, and just allround class of guys like Neitz, Schwartz, Green and Nat Jones.  I'm also pretty excited about the potential of guys like Hogan, Petracca, Oliver, Weideman amongst others, hopefully we may be able to compete with the Juggernaut that will be/is GWS, and possibly get that ultimate success.

My point?  Not much of one but in my humble opinion you need to embrace ALL your clubs history, no matter how long/short, good or bad.  If you embrace it, then it shouldn't matter what other fans think, and makes it irrelevant as to whether it began 5/25/85 or 120 years ago.

[PowerBug]

For those that are cricket followers, would you rather be a Thunder or a Stars supporter? Thunder bottom of the BBL like every single season, except last season where they won the comp. Stars have made the top 4 every season but haven't won it before. Surely you'd all pick Thunder?

I'm definitely on the "be shower forever but happen to win one" side of the argument.

[Bill Manspeaker]

For those that are cricket followers, would you rather be a Thunder or a Stars supporter? Thunder bottom of the BBL like every single season, except last season where they won the comp. Stars have made the top 4 every season but haven't won it before. Surely you'd all pick Thunder?

I'm definitely on the "be shower forever but happen to win one" side of the argument.

that's a bit different cos there's only been like 5 seasons. I'd happily finish dead last every year but then win the grand final on the 5th year

10 years is a long ass time. if you're shower (say bottom 2-4 every year, like 5 spoons) for 9 or more years, that's gonna feel like forever. you're gonna hate watching/going to the footy every year and that'll probably weigh you down so much you won't really care about footy any more. I don't know what it's like to see my team win a grand final so it's hard for me to say

if it was offered that way I'd probably take the flag and be shower for 10 years cos I just want that feeling. but it might be a different answer if I had already seen my team win a few flags

[Holz]

For those that are cricket followers, would you rather be a Thunder or a Stars supporter? Thunder bottom of the BBL like every single season, except last season where they won the comp. Stars have made the top 4 every season but haven't won it before. Surely you'd all pick Thunder?

I'm definitely on the "be shower forever but happen to win one" side of the argument.

that's a bit different cos there's only been like 5 seasons. I'd happily finish dead last every year but then win the grand final on the 5th year

10 years is a long ass time. if you're shower (say bottom 2-4 every year, like 5 spoons) for 9 or more years, that's gonna feel like forever. you're gonna hate watching/going to the footy every year and that'll probably weigh you down so much you won't really care about footy any more. I don't know what it's like to see my team win a grand final so it's hard for me to say

if it was offered that way I'd probably take the flag and be shower for 10 years cos I just want that feeling. but it might be a different answer if I had already seen my team win a few flags

Of course i wouldn't pick the thunder.

If my team is good all year and then loses right at the end ill have a down few weeks.

If my team sucks all year then im down all year.

If some people can watch their teams get pumped every week with just the "ohh we won a few years back" then good for them. But if i watch my team putting on a good show every single week with great plays, elite players then I dont even think about what happend a few years back as im enjoying the now.

As a coach in XV I would take being top 4 for 5 years straight and never winning over going old winning 1 cup then sucking for the next 4 years.

Yeah winning is great for bragging and saying your the best but end of the day it all comes down to luck and who was best on that day for winning flags. I think most people would agree the dogs wernt the best team this year they where the best team for a few weeks.

really there is no right or wrong answer each to their own. Im just happy if my team is competitive i just lose interest when i see my team getting pumped every week.