A disgrace.

[meow meow]

So basically people are saying that the Dogs are the best because not only did we win the flag, we did it vs WC over there, vs Hawks on their home ground, vs GWS up there, vs Swans on a neutral ground (big difference between Docklands and MCG for us)? Glad we can all agree.

[GoLions]

So basically people are saying that the Dogs are the best because not only did we win the flag, we did it vs WC over there, vs Hawks on their home ground, vs GWS up there, vs Swans on a neutral ground (big difference between Docklands and MCG for us)? Glad we can all agree.

Like, I can't speak for everyone, but that's what I've been picking up throughout this whole conversation

[Holz]

So basically people are saying that the Dogs are the best because not only did we win the flag, we did it vs WC over there, vs Hawks on their home ground, vs GWS up there, vs Swans on a neutral ground (big difference between Docklands and MCG for us)? Glad we can all agree.

Yes you where the best team in the finals by a mile. That we all agree on.

However overall one of the worst current team in AFL history with Stkilda/Fremantle.

North Aint much better but there is a clear bottom 3.

too early to put GC in but they will eventaully join the others if they keep doing nothing.

[JBs-Hawks]

Needs more vinny!

[Bill Manspeaker]

So basically people are saying that the Dogs are the best because not only did we win the flag, we did it vs WC over there, vs Hawks on their home ground, vs GWS up there, vs Swans on a neutral ground (big difference between Docklands and MCG for us)? Glad we can all agree.

Yes you where the best team in the finals by a mile. That we all agree on.

However overall one of the worst current team in AFL history with Stkilda/Fremantle.

North Aint much better but there is a clear bottom 3.

too early to put GC in but they will eventaully join the others if they keep doing nothing.

we're not actually that bad an AFL side. we've made the finals heaps of times, 4 grand finals, heaps of prelims... just not the ultimate success. Richmond for example are a much worse team since the AFL became a national competition

[Pkbaldy]

So basically people are saying that the Dogs are the best because not only did we win the flag, we did it vs WC over there, vs Hawks on their home ground, vs GWS up there, vs Swans on a neutral ground (big difference between Docklands and MCG for us)? Glad we can all agree.

Yes you where the best team in the finals by a mile. That we all agree on.

However overall one of the worst current team in AFL history with Stkilda/Fremantle.

North Aint much better but there is a clear bottom 3.

too early to put GC in but they will eventaully join the others if they keep doing nothing.

we're not actually that bad an AFL side. we've made the finals heaps of times, 4 grand finals, heaps of prelims... just not the ultimate success. Richmond for example are a much worse team since the AFL became a national competition

Since the AFL began (1990), Richmond and Fremantle are the worst. Found this little thing (Back from end of 2014 season). It's the average ladder finish between 1990-2014.

1.Geelong - 5.54
2.West Coast - 6.67
3.North Melbourne - 7.21
4.Collingwood - 7.58
5.Essendon - 7.63
6.Hawthorn - 7.63
7.Adelaide - 7.74
8.Sydney 7.88
9.Port Adelaide - 8.12
10.St Kilda - 8.46
11.Western Bulldogs - 8.46
12.Brisbane Lions - 8.53
13.Carlton - 8.75
14.Melbourne - 10.46
15.Fremantle - 10.63
16.Richmond - 11.13
17.Brisbane Bears - 11.29*
18.Fitzroy - 13.29*
19.Gold Coast - 16.00
20.Greater Western Sydney - 18.00

Which is actually surprises me that the Lions are that far down... And no doubt be worse now after the last 2 seasons.

[Holz]

So basically people are saying that the Dogs are the best because not only did we win the flag, we did it vs WC over there, vs Hawks on their home ground, vs GWS up there, vs Swans on a neutral ground (big difference between Docklands and MCG for us)? Glad we can all agree.

Yes you where the best team in the finals by a mile. That we all agree on.

However overall one of the worst current team in AFL history with Stkilda/Fremantle.

North Aint much better but there is a clear bottom 3.

too early to put GC in but they will eventaully join the others if they keep doing nothing.

we're not actually that bad an AFL side. we've made the finals heaps of times, 4 grand finals, heaps of prelims... just not the ultimate success. Richmond for example are a much worse team since the AFL became a national competition

Since the AFL began (1990), Richmond and Fremantle are the worst. Found this little thing (Back from end of 2014 season). It's the average ladder finish between 1990-2014.

1.Geelong - 5.54
2.West Coast - 6.67
3.North Melbourne - 7.21
4.Collingwood - 7.58
5.Essendon - 7.63
6.Hawthorn - 7.63
7.Adelaide - 7.74
8.Sydney 7.88
9.Port Adelaide - 8.12
10.St Kilda - 8.46
11.Western Bulldogs - 8.46
12.Brisbane Lions - 8.53
13.Carlton - 8.75
14.Melbourne - 10.46
15.Fremantle - 10.63
16.Richmond - 11.13
17.Brisbane Bears - 11.29*
18.Fitzroy - 13.29*
19.Gold Coast - 16.00
20.Greater Western Sydney - 18.00

Which is actually surprises me that the Lions are that far down... And no doubt be worse now after the last 2 seasons.

When i said north was one of the worst thats for vfl afl with cjampionships.

When it comes to rhe afl north a top 5 competetive team. The ladder backs it up.

We are great at making pre lims

[Bill Manspeaker]

So basically people are saying that the Dogs are the best because not only did we win the flag, we did it vs WC over there, vs Hawks on their home ground, vs GWS up there, vs Swans on a neutral ground (big difference between Docklands and MCG for us)? Glad we can all agree.

Yes you where the best team in the finals by a mile. That we all agree on.

However overall one of the worst current team in AFL history with Stkilda/Fremantle.

North Aint much better but there is a clear bottom 3.

too early to put GC in but they will eventaully join the others if they keep doing nothing.

we're not actually that bad an AFL side. we've made the finals heaps of times, 4 grand finals, heaps of prelims... just not the ultimate success. Richmond for example are a much worse team since the AFL became a national competition

Since the AFL began (1990), Richmond and Fremantle are the worst. Found this little thing (Back from end of 2014 season). It's the average ladder finish between 1990-2014.

1.Geelong - 5.54
2.West Coast - 6.67
3.North Melbourne - 7.21
4.Collingwood - 7.58
5.Essendon - 7.63
6.Hawthorn - 7.63
7.Adelaide - 7.74
8.Sydney 7.88
9.Port Adelaide - 8.12
10.St Kilda - 8.46
11.Western Bulldogs - 8.46
12.Brisbane Lions - 8.53
13.Carlton - 8.75
14.Melbourne - 10.46
15.Fremantle - 10.63
16.Richmond - 11.13
17.Brisbane Bears - 11.29*
18.Fitzroy - 13.29*
19.Gold Coast - 16.00
20.Greater Western Sydney - 18.00

Which is actually surprises me that the Lions are that far down... And no doubt be worse now after the last 2 seasons.

When i said north was one of the worst thats for vfl afl with cjampionships.

When it comes to rhe afl north a top 5 competetive team. The ladder backs it up.

We are great at making pre lims

yeah North in the 90s were a freak team. something like 7(?) prelims in a row with 3 grand finals (2 wins, 1 loss). my mate blames that loss on me because I told him they'll beat Adelaide easily (after the cows beat us the previous year) and straight away he said if they lose it's my fault

[PowerBug]

1.Geelong - 148
2.West Coast - 177
3.Hawthorn - 191
4.Sydney - 195
5.North Melbourne - 203
6.Adelaide - 200 (26)
7.Collingwood - 217
8.Port Adelaide - 162 (20)
9.Essendon - 223
10.Western Bulldogs - 230
11.St Kilda - 244
12.Carlton - 255
13.Brisbane Lions - 194 (20)
14.Fremantle - 223 (22)
15.Melbourne - 292
16.Richmond - 293
17.Brisbane Bears - 79 (7)
18.Fitzroy - 93 (7)
19.Greater Western Sydney - 67 (5)
20.Gold Coast - 91 (6)

There we go, from the 27 seasons the AFL has been in existence :) Those that played less have the number in brackets.

[Holz]

So basically people are saying that the Dogs are the best because not only did we win the flag, we did it vs WC over there, vs Hawks on their home ground, vs GWS up there, vs Swans on a neutral ground (big difference between Docklands and MCG for us)? Glad we can all agree.

Yes you where the best team in the finals by a mile. That we all agree on.

However overall one of the worst current team in AFL history with Stkilda/Fremantle.

North Aint much better but there is a clear bottom 3.

too early to put GC in but they will eventaully join the others if they keep doing nothing.

we're not actually that bad an AFL side. we've made the finals heaps of times, 4 grand finals, heaps of prelims... just not the ultimate success. Richmond for example are a much worse team since the AFL became a national competition

Since the AFL began (1990), Richmond and Fremantle are the worst. Found this little thing (Back from end of 2014 season). It's the average ladder finish between 1990-2014.

1.Geelong - 5.54
2.West Coast - 6.67
3.North Melbourne - 7.21
4.Collingwood - 7.58
5.Essendon - 7.63
6.Hawthorn - 7.63
7.Adelaide - 7.74
8.Sydney 7.88
9.Port Adelaide - 8.12
10.St Kilda - 8.46
11.Western Bulldogs - 8.46
12.Brisbane Lions - 8.53
13.Carlton - 8.75
14.Melbourne - 10.46
15.Fremantle - 10.63
16.Richmond - 11.13
17.Brisbane Bears - 11.29*
18.Fitzroy - 13.29*
19.Gold Coast - 16.00
20.Greater Western Sydney - 18.00

Which is actually surprises me that the Lions are that far down... And no doubt be worse now after the last 2 seasons.

When i said north was one of the worst thats for vfl afl with cjampionships.

When it comes to rhe afl north a top 5 competetive team. The ladder backs it up.

We are great at making pre lims

yeah North in the 90s were a freak team. something like 7(?) prelims in a row with 3 grand finals (2 wins, 1 loss). my mate blames that loss on me because I told him they'll beat Adelaide easily (after the cows beat us the previous year) and straight away he said if they lose it's my fault

yeah i have them best team in the 90s even though there where a few others who won as many flags.

even in the 2000s they have been good

Prelims in

2000, 2007, 2014, 2015

so 25% of the time which is about average so with the fantastic 90s should be up there.

[elephants]

Shame you get nothing but a showerty draft pick for losing in a prelim.

[tbagrocks]

Everyone likes to feel sorry for St Kilda and Bulldogs and support them as their second team.

Well, They are almost up there with perennial finalists Sydney and Adelaide ???

[Ziplock]

1.Geelong - 148
2.West Coast - 177
3.Hawthorn - 191
4.Sydney - 195
5.North Melbourne - 203
6.Adelaide - 200 (26)
7.Collingwood - 217
8.Port Adelaide - 162 (20)
9.Essendon - 223
10.Western Bulldogs - 230
11.St Kilda - 244
12.Carlton - 255
13.Brisbane Lions - 194 (20)
14.Fremantle - 223 (22)
15.Melbourne - 292
16.Richmond - 293
17.Brisbane Bears - 79 (7)
18.Fitzroy - 93 (7)
19.Greater Western Sydney - 67 (5)
20.Gold Coast - 91 (6)

There we go, from the 27 seasons the AFL has been in existence :) Those that played less have the number in brackets.

I might have missed something, what are those numbers?

Shame you get nothing but a showerty draft pick for losing in a prelim.

preach.

Something you don't really feel unless you play XVs though I guess :P

[PowerBug]

Look at what Pk posted above, I just multiplied it out. I have the summed up the ladder positions of every team from 1990 onwards. Divide it by 27 (unless stated otherwise) to give the average ladder position.

[Holz]

Shame you get nothing but a showerty draft pick for losing in a prelim.

As a fan i get alot of enjoyment out of watching my team be one of the best teams all year and wathcing 3 grandfinals with 2 flags in my lifetime.

Something similar you have experienced.

Personally would rather my team be good for 4-5 years and never win then dominant 1-2year win it and then do nothing much.