NBA Season 2016/17

[jvalles69]

This isn't aimed at anyone here, but I'm sick and tired of people like Skip, Chuck, Stephen A who claim to know basketball and all those facebook pages with indians, asians who have 0 minutes on the court and 2 seasons of watching 20 games having a go @ LeBron over the past month.

- LeBron isn't asking for James Harden. He is asking for a guy who can run the floor without him and Kyrie.
- Warriors added a 4th HOF player to their roster while the Cavs added Kay Felder. They have a spare roster space and two 5m contracts/exemptions they can use.
-Stop saying LeBron should take less money. When LeBron joined the Cavs, Gilbert said he will have unlimited resources and LeBron will get max. How it works is even if LeBron took the minimum, they are still over the cap since you can resign players for over the amount. Doesn't matter how much LeBron takes, they would still be in the same situation now.
- Stop saying LeBron gets whatever he wants and has all the help in the world. LeBron has never been on a historically elite team. He has never had the team that Bird, Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Russell or any other Mount Rushmore type of player has had.
- Those LeBron Haters/MJ Lovers are just getting mad because LeBron is getting really close to GOAT status. There will be a really strong case for LeBron #1 if he beats this GSW team. I know I'll be making it.

:o

[Andrew3747]

Which part do you have a problem with?

[LaHug]

LeBron has never been on a historically elite team. He has never had the team that Bird, Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Russell or any other Mount Rushmore type of player has had.

What?! LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh in their primes is historically elite.

[Holz]

LeBron has never been on a historically elite team. He has never had the team that Bird, Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Russell or any other Mount Rushmore type of player has had.

What?! LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh in their primes is historically elite.

Wade was prime in 2006.

He was maybe 75% of himself in 2011 and lebron stuffed that series up and should have won. Its his only blemish.

He never had prime wade its a diservice to wade to say he was anywhere near himself. Give cavs prime 2006 wade and they 4 peat he was that good.

[Andrew3747]

Chris Bosh scored exactly 0 points in a game 7. Jordan never had to worry about Rodman giving him 0 rebounds. Wade is super good but he was injury riddled in 2012+. The depth of that Heat team was shower as well. Yeah they had Allen but he was 9 years out of his prime.

2011 is on LeBron and no one can change that, but what he has done since then is just incredible. That Heat team was elite but not one of the top 10 greatest teams ever like any other top 5/10 player has been apart of.

[jvalles69]

This isn't aimed at anyone here, but I'm sick and tired of people like Skip, Chuck, Stephen A who claim to know basketball and all those facebook pages with indians, asians who have 0 minutes on the court and 2 seasons of watching 20 games having a go @ LeBron over the past month.

- LeBron isn't asking for James Harden. He is asking for a guy who can run the floor without him and Kyrie.
- Warriors added a 4th HOF player to their roster while the Cavs added Kay Felder. They have a spare roster space and two 5m contracts/exemptions they can use.
-Stop saying LeBron should take less money. When LeBron joined the Cavs, Gilbert said he will have unlimited resources and LeBron will get max. How it works is even if LeBron took the minimum, they are still over the cap since you can resign players for over the amount. Doesn't matter how much LeBron takes, they would still be in the same situation now.
- Stop saying LeBron gets whatever he wants and has all the help in the world. LeBron has never been on a historically elite team. He has never had the team that Bird, Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Russell or any other Mount Rushmore type of player has had.
- Those LeBron Haters/MJ Lovers are just getting mad because LeBron is getting really close to GOAT status. There will be a really strong case for LeBron #1 if he beats this GSW team. I know I'll be making it.

:o

Didn't have a problem with the post, I'm a MJ lover, but not a Lebron hater and think the guy is doing stuff we've never seen before...was just the part about the indians and asians I took offense at...or I just read it wrong...

[Andrew3747]

Sorry, was an emotional post. A lot of facebook pages have floods of people from that part of the world who have only been watching basketball since the warriors started winning and are flat out hating on LeBron.

[valkorum]

2011 is on LeBron and no one can change that, but what he has done since then is just incredible. That Heat team was elite but not one of the top 10 greatest teams ever like any other top 5/10 player has been apart of.

2011 - Loss 2-4
2012 - Win 4-1
2013 - Win 4-3
2014 - Loss 1-4
2015 - Loss 2-4
2016 - Win 4-3

How is that incredible?  What is incredible is that he has made the finals for 6 seasons in a row.  But only winning 3 out of those 6 is not incredible.  Then add in the 4-0 smashing he got at the hands of the Spurs in 2007.  So 3 wins from 7 appearances is not incredible.

Jordan's 1st 3-peat only had 3 decent players and the rest were all roleplayers or past their prime.

Jordan, Pippen, Horace Grant - best 3 by a mile on those teams
BJ Armstrong was solid, but no superstar
Bill Cartwright was mid to late 30's and was well past it


1993 Bulls

Michael Jordan - GOAT
Scottie Pippen - Superstar
Horace Grant - Quality player
BJ Armstrong - Solid Player
Ricky Blanton
Bill Cartwright - 36yo and was the starting centre... lol
Joe Courtney
Jo Jo English
Stacey King
Rodney McCray -
Ed Nealy
John Paxson - 32yo and replaced in starting lineup by BJ Armstrong
Will Perdue
Trent Tucker
Darrell Walker
Corety Williams
Scott Williams

[jvalles69]

Sorry, was an emotional post. A lot of facebook pages have floods of people from that part of the world who have only been watching basketball since the warriors started winning and are flat out hating on LeBron.

Haha, all good, i constantly see white dudes who have been watching basketball for their whole lives saying stupid shower on facebook pages!  ::)

[Andrew3747]

2011 is on LeBron and no one can change that, but what he has done since then is just incredible. That Heat team was elite but not one of the top 10 greatest teams ever like any other top 5/10 player has been apart of.

2011 - Loss 2-4
2012 - Win 4-1
2013 - Win 4-3
2014 - Loss 1-4
2015 - Loss 2-4
2016 - Win 4-3

How is that incredible?  What is incredible is that he has made the finals for 6 seasons in a row.  But only winning 3 out of those 6 is not incredible.  Then add in the 4-0 smashing he got at the hands of the Spurs in 2007.  So 3 wins from 7 appearances is not incredible.

Jordan's 1st 3-peat only had 3 decent players and the rest were all roleplayers or past their prime.

Jordan, Pippen, Horace Grant - best 3 by a mile on those teams
BJ Armstrong was solid, but no superstar
Bill Cartwright was mid to late 30's and was well past it


1993 Bulls

Michael Jordan - GOAT
Scottie Pippen - Superstar
Horace Grant - Quality player
BJ Armstrong - Solid Player
Ricky Blanton
Bill Cartwright - 36yo and was the starting centre... lol
Joe Courtney
Jo Jo English
Stacey King
Rodney McCray -
Ed Nealy
John Paxson - 32yo and replaced in starting lineup by BJ Armstrong
Will Perdue
Trent Tucker
Darrell Walker
Corety Williams
Scott Williams

I can respond later more indepth with a pretty good case for LeBron.

LeBron has most finals, most MVPs, equal rings, equal FMVPs, top 2 PER, top 3 WS, highest +\- in this 6 year stretch compared to any other player since 1975ish.

Also, lets not forget Jordan's finals opponents werent as good as LeBron's. Barkleys Phoenix is the only one that was really, really good, but none have been elite teams. Portland with Draxler and an old lakers team with Magic being way out of his prime with the teams best player being James Worthy.

EDIT

Magic being way out of his prime is prob a stretch but I believe all of his numbers+metrics went down except assists. He wasn't the same player as the seasons before.

[jvalles69]

Honestly I'm over the whole argument and I'm a massive MJ fan.  Can't we appreciate each player for what they give to the game and how much they entertain us?  MJ to me will always be the GOAT, but not just because of what he did in the game, the fact that he was the sole reason I got into basketball at the age of 6 and I've played for almost 30 years of my life at different levels, to me thats worth more than what Lebron or any other player will ever do, but tonnes of people will have the same experience with Lebron too, Kobe aswell.  At least I can appreciate each player for what they do without comparison.

[Andrew3747]

I just get angry and upset when people say that LeBron can never be mentioned in the same breath as MJ and that he isn't clutch, needed more help and all that crap. LeBron is getting really close to him. Michael's legacy grows bigger every year and we love Michael for it but hate LeBron for the exact same thing.

[valkorum]

I can respond later more indepth with a pretty good case for LeBron.

LeBron has most finals, most MVPs, equal rings, equal FMVPs, top 2 PER, top 3 WS, highest +\- in this 6 year stretch compared to any other player since 1975ish.

Also, lets not forget Jordan's finals opponents werent as good as LeBron's. Barkleys Phoenix is the only one that was really, really good, but none have been elite teams. Portland with Draxler and an old lakers team with Magic being way out of his prime with the teams best player being James Worthy.

EDIT

Magic being way out of his prime is prob a stretch but I believe all of his numbers+metrics went down except assists. He wasn't the same player as the seasons before.

In 6 years (91-96) Jordan had:
4 x Champion (91-93, 96)
3 x MVP (91, 92, 96)
4 x Scoring Titles (91-93, 96)
4 x Finals MVP (91-93, 96)
4 x NBA All Defensive Team (91-93, 96)
4 x All NBA 1st Team (91-93, 96)
4 x All Star (91-93, 96)
1 x All Star MVP (96)
1 x Steals Leader (93)

Also, Jordan didn't play in 94 & came back on 18th March 1995 (I'm Back)



1991 (4-1) -- Bulls v Lakers (Magic Johnson, Vlade Divac, Sam Perkins, James Worthy, Byron Scott)
1992 (4-2) -- Bulls v Trailblazers (Danny Ainge, Mark Bryant, Clyde Drexler, Jerome Kersey, Terry Porter, Cliff Robinson
1993 (4-2) -- Bulls v Suns (Charles Barkley, Danny Ainge, Richard Dumas, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle)
1996 (4-2) -- Bulls v Supersonics (Hersey Hawkins, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Sam Perkins, Detlef Schrempf)
1997 (4-2) -- Bulls v Jazz (Karl Malone, John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek)
1998 (4-2) -- Bulls v Jazz (Karl Malon, John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek)

If anything, I would say the 1997, 1998 Jazz were the weakest teams that Jordan faced in NBA Finals.  And I didn't include those years in the 6 year spread.

[valkorum]

I just get angry and upset when people say that LeBron can never be mentioned in the same breath as MJ and that he isn't clutch, needed more help and all that crap. LeBron is getting really close to him. Michael's legacy grows bigger every year and we love Michael for it but hate LeBron for the exact same thing.

There is probably a small exhale and then you can talk about LeBron... but he isn't on the same level as the GOAT - no one is.

[plumdog millionaire]

Wow there's more activity about this then the last month combined it feels like haha