Richmond 2016 H&A discussion

[elephants]

Vlastuin on ball, now that I want to see!

[Toga]

Griff is only 2cm shorter than Ivan though and is much more athletic - which seems to be the increasing trend among rucks at the moment. Doesn't have the sheer size of a Gawn/Goldstein type but has a beautiful kick and a reasonable running capacity.

[Nige]

It would be an interesting experiment tbh.

[Donnie Brasco]

matthew knights

[elephants]

Ivan was given a bath by Gawn. I know Gawn is one of the best in the comp and Maric is coming off a long term injury lay off but you have to wonder how much more Maric has in him.

The point about the move to more athletic ruckmen is valid imo.

[tbagrocks]

Rancey might be a champion player, at least he will be. But he did something silly, I mean really, really stupid!

If your going to whack a bloke, YOU DONT DO IT IN FRONT OF JACK VINEY .......... What on earth were you thinking Rance? :o

[Ziplock]

yeah, dumb move by rance.

Good on viney though.

[quinny88]

Well thats a wrap on the season.. I was thinking guys like Rioli, C.Ellis and Menadue were due to be pushed out and lucky to be getting games on form but may as well keep them in now, try a few things and give some more kids a chance.
I know we've played a lot of kids this year but id like to see Chol and McBean come in and get a crack.
Jayden Short was impressive when given the chance, then gets pushed straight out. Castagna looked good in his first game. Piss off blokes like Batch and Morris that will never be part of a successful team.

No point in us trying to salvage the season. Even if we pull off another miracle like 2014 and make the 8 we miss the chance for the mini rebuild we need. Better off playing kids, getting a top 5 pick and looking to 2017. Use the remainder of the season to see which kids can play and which guys are done.

[shaker]

Enough is enough the turd can't be polished any more Hardwick needs to go and the sooner the better and whoever was responsible for extending his contract should be gone to , we need more than a mini rebuild our list apart from the core players is rubbish littered with the failed moneyball players that he recruited and many draft picks over many years that are just no good , I agree play the kids and see who is worth keeping but to think we can be good enough in 2017 is laughable this guy has set us back many years , it is time for a complete overhaul I just hope the club does not flower around with him it is already costing us big time only 27000 at the game last night , the writing is on the wall hope the club is smart enough to read it

[Grazz]

[quinny88]

Enough is enough the turd can't be polished any more Hardwick needs to go and the sooner the better and whoever was responsible for extending his contract should be gone to , we need more than a mini rebuild our list apart from the core players is rubbish littered with the failed moneyball players that he recruited and many draft picks over many years that are just no good , I agree play the kids and see who is worth keeping but to think we can be good enough in 2017 is laughable this guy has set us back many years , it is time for a complete overhaul I just hope the club does not flower around with him it is already costing us big time only 27000 at the game last night , the writing is on the wall hope the club is smart enough to read it

Yeah lets sack another coach and every player and sit on the bottom for 5 years  ::)
Its not needed at all. We've been half a game out of the 4 2 of the last 3 years. List needs a little clean up and some good drafting and trading over the next year or 2 but a complete rebuild isnt needed.

Chaplin and Maric will retire. Batchelor, Hunt and Morris are done.
The rest of the list has about 4 players playing well, some terribly out of form and some are very underdone or injured.

We haven't been able to put our best 22 on the park which most teams dont get to but we simply dont have the depth to cover important players.
If from round one we played with a fit best 22 of say:

Vlastuin, Astbury, Grimes
Houli, Rance, Yarran
B.Ellis, Cotchin, Grigg
Edwards, Vickery, Deledio
Lloyd, Riewoldt, Conca
Maric, Martin, Miles

Lambert, Lennon, Mcintosh, Griffiths

That is a team with no huge holes or issues. A dominant CHF would be the biggest thing.
Still dont have that dangerous small forward we need too but Rioli was drafted to become that.

The problem with that team above is that when Maric, Deledio, Vlastuin, Grimes, Rance, Edwards, Conca, Grigg, Yarran and now Cotchin have all missed games we dont have the second tier players to step up or quality in the vfl to step in.

[shaker]

We have not sacked a coach for a long time 7 years , the problem is everyone keeps posting our best team well out of that lot Q Grimes and Conca only have to think about running to do a hammy Vlastuin and Mcintosh have shown very little since there first year Astbury Vickery Griffiths Lennon have shown little there whole careers Miles is not the gun mid everyone thought Maric is cooked and then we have all the dead wood that we have gathered from other clubs , our list is shower there is no way we will even get close to flag without a very big rebuild , sack the recruiters , sack the development coaches I don't care keep Dimma but 7 years with no success is a long time all I know there has to be big changes in the club and even then it will take years to fix this mess up

[Toga]

The latest criticism has focussed on Richmond's drafting, pointing out that the club is going with "safe" selections in the first round and not going for players with high levels of development left in them. I think in recent years you can make a case for Richmond making good selections in Martin, Ellis, Vlastuin however I do see the point when they talk about going with Conca over Heppell, Caddy, Prestia, Lynch and Lennon over Cripps.

I do think Lennon still has the potential to become a great third tall forward for the club though, I'm very surprised as to why he's not receiving much opportunity at the moment.

Where there is a huge deficiency in Richmond's recruiting is the effectiveness of the club's later draft picks. I'm not sure how many players picked after the first round in the last five or so years have gone on to become regulars in the senior team - but it can't be many. McIntosh is the only one that's really springing to mind. Whereas you look at a team like Sydney who unearth guys like Hannebery, Parker in the 30-40s, that's why they are a level above.

The team will not be able to compete with the best teams without some success with mid-to-late draft picks.

[elephants]

On Maric, Hampson got more hitouts than him on the weekend. Clearly playing both isn't gonna work.

Is Maric no longer the #1 ruck??

[quinny88]

We have not sacked a coach for a long time 7 years , the problem is everyone keeps posting our best team well out of that lot Q Grimes and Conca only have to think about running to do a hammy Vlastuin and Mcintosh have shown very little since there first year Astbury Vickery Griffiths Lennon have shown little there whole careers Miles is not the gun mid everyone thought Maric is cooked and then we have all the dead wood that we have gathered from other clubs , our list is shower there is no way we will even get close to flag without a very big rebuild , sack the recruiters , sack the development coaches I don't care keep Dimma but 7 years with no success is a long time all I know there has to be big changes in the club and even then it will take years to fix this mess up

Astbury has only played 30 games in 6 years due to injury. Grimes and Conca terribly unlucky as well.
Lennon 18 games, McIntosh 27 games are way to early to make a call on.
Miles and Vlastuin have been guns for us the past 2-3 years and have had a couple of bad games to start the year and you're writing them off?
Vickery and Griffiths the 2 big let downs, you would think one of them would have demanded the CHF position by now.
McBean, Mckenzie and Chol are pretty exciting kids for those positions in the future though.

You're making calls based on our terrible form rather than looking at the bigger picture.
Don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water.