Richmond 2016 H&A discussion

[Nige]

Cotchin, Rance, Lloyd Riewoldt the only ones to show any heart tonight. Pathetic.

I'd add Astbury and Shedda to that tbh.

For more thoughts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RichmondFC/comments/4g7vre/round_5_post_game_vs_melbourne_129_96_loss/

[roo boys!]

Cotchin, Rance, Lloyd Riewoldt the only ones to show any heart tonight. Pathetic.

I'd add Astbury and Shedda to that tbh.

For more thoughts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RichmondFC/comments/4g7vre/round_5_post_game_vs_melbourne_129_96_loss/

Started with a decent analysis of the football then got really flowering depressing...

[Nige]

Cotchin, Rance, Lloyd Riewoldt the only ones to show any heart tonight. Pathetic.

I'd add Astbury and Shedda to that tbh.

For more thoughts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RichmondFC/comments/4g7vre/round_5_post_game_vs_melbourne_129_96_loss/

Started with a decent analysis of the football then got really flowering depressing...

That's because the situation really is ahaha.

I contributed a fair bit to it, but in the heat of the moment, I had to vent.

[elephants]

Meh, could be worse. You could support Freo.

[GoLions]

Meh, could be worse. You could support Freo.

And now they don't have to see their team lose another elimination final!

[shaker]

Think at some point  you have to stop blaming players and look at the development , recruiting and coaching this has been going on to long now and it is not going to change till major changes are done so Richmond as a club has to either realize everything they have been doing for 7 years has to change or continue with this stupid moneyball approach of trying make hack players from other clubs into stars because honestly we cant even develop the young players we get in draft let alone older players with shocking skills ..... thoughts?

[Nige]

Think at some point  you have to stop blaming players and look at the development , recruiting and coaching this has been going on to long now and it is not going to change till major changes are done so Richmond as a club has to either realize everything they have been doing for 7 years has to change or continue with this stupid moneyball approach of trying make hack players from other clubs into stars because honestly we cant even develop the young players we get in draft let alone older players with shocking skills ..... thoughts?

Yeah, I've seen a bit of this talk develop lately. It really is true in a way. The problem is the bottom portion of the list aren't up to scratch. Cotch, Jack, (even Lids when he comes back) etc can do their job but when you're playing dead weight like Steven Morris, you're not gonna win games.

[shaker]

Think at some point  you have to stop blaming players and look at the development , recruiting and coaching this has been going on to long now and it is not going to change till major changes are done so Richmond as a club has to either realize everything they have been doing for 7 years has to change or continue with this stupid moneyball approach of trying make hack players from other clubs into stars because honestly we cant even develop the young players we get in draft let alone older players with shocking skills ..... thoughts?

Yeah, I've seen a bit of this talk develop lately. It really is true in a way. The problem is the bottom portion of the list aren't up to scratch. Cotch, Jack, (even Lids when he comes back) etc can do their job but when you're playing dead weight like Steven Morris, you're not gonna win games.

For instance we chose to get Yarran a proven lazy player that if he does not agree with what the coaching staff wants he cracks the sads and just does not try , 3 coaches have tried with him and have failed and that will continue at the Tiges it is just how he is meanwhile the Dogs were grabbing a player like Marcus Adams a much wiser decision , I don't think our team can be saved in the terms of winning a flag we have only a few A graders and a list full of rejects and younger blokes that are not good enough or just are not being developed right , Dimma has some big ?'s over his head about the team of coaching staff he has assembled because it is failing badly

[Toga]

I want to see Vlastuin come back into the side and play in the middle. Was recruited as a midfielder and has shown ability to put his head over the ball down back so get him in there. We need another contested ball winner.

Lennon needs to come into the team and play as a link-up forward so that Jack can play closer to goals.

[Toga]

As much as last night pissed me off with such pissweak effort, I feel like it's not all doom and gloom when you have a look at what the 22 could look like with everyone fit (and hopefully not being played out of position). Looks so much better.

FB: Grimes, Rance, Conca
HB: Houli, Astbury, Yarran
C: B.Ellis, Vlastuin, McIntosh
HF: Deledio, Riewoldt, Lennon
FF: Lloyd, Vickery, Edwards
Fol: Maric, Martin, Cotchin
I/C: Rioli, Miles, Griffiths, C.Ellis

[Nige]

As much as last night pissed me off with such pissweak effort, I feel like it's not all doom and gloom when you have a look at what the 22 could look like with everyone fit (and hopefully not being played out of position). Looks so much better.

FB: Grimes, Rance, Conca
HB: Houli, Astbury, Yarran
C: B.Ellis, Vlastuin, McIntosh
HF: Deledio, Riewoldt, Lennon
FF: Lloyd, Vickery, Edwards
Fol: Maric, Martin, Cotchin
I/C: Rioli, Miles, Griffiths, C.Ellis

Based on what we've seen from those who have played this year, that's not really a bad team if fully fit.

Griffiths and cEllis have the two most contentious spots for me (in that 22).

[Toga]

Agreed Nige. Corey Ellis needs a few weeks in the VFL to find some confidence and form, he and Menadue have just looked out of place the last few weeks.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the ruck department for the rest of the year. Maric gives his all week in week out but was monstered both in the ruck and around the ground yesterday. Could Griffiths be trialled as more of a mobile big man?

[GoLions]

Get Oleg, Georgy, and The Bean in there!

[shaker]

As much as last night pissed me off with such pissweak effort, I feel like it's not all doom and gloom when you have a look at what the 22 could look like with everyone fit (and hopefully not being played out of position). Looks so much better.

FB: Grimes, Rance, Conca
HB: Houli, Astbury, Yarran
C: B.Ellis, Vlastuin, McIntosh
HF: Deledio, Riewoldt, Lennon
FF: Lloyd, Vickery, Edwards
Fol: Maric, Martin, Cotchin
I/C: Rioli, Miles, Griffiths, C.Ellis

Every team would like to get there best team on the paddock every week but it just really never happens at best we could hope for is include Lids and couple of others with the best of who ran out last night , the team I have watched this year would need much more to be anywhere near a contender and that is what I'm talking about not just almost being good enough

[Nige]

Agreed Nige. Corey Ellis needs a few weeks in the VFL to find some confidence and form, he and Menadue have just looked out of place the last few weeks.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the ruck department for the rest of the year. Maric gives his all week in week out but was monstered both in the ruck and around the ground yesterday. Could Griffiths be trialled as more of a mobile big man?

I doubt it.

If anything, they'll probably play Ivan and Hammer together, it hasn't really happened yet to gauge just how effective it works. I think it was a tough first game back for Ivan though, Gawn's a beast and is hard for any ruck to beat given his size and how good he is around the ground, it's like having an extra mid (Stef Martin, Goldy, Brodie Grundy, Big Boy McEvoy are like that to various degrees off the top of my head). Ivan's better in front of goal and around the ground, but Hammer has the superior tap work and contested marking imo. I think the biggest problem Ivan is facing now is age and injuries. He just looked way too slow and we're gonna need more than him lumbering around. Needs to smash Lobbe next week.

Griff's a natural forward who can pinch hit, he's not a ruck, neither is Tyrone. They'd have to work hard on developing their ruck skills to be a proper forward/ruck type. I actually think Mabior Chol's gonna be good in this regard, because if he adds some size, he's super athletic and seems to be able to do some good work around the ground, but he seems a good year or two away from being even close to a regular.