Laird

[plumdog millionaire]

I'm not usually one to complain about scoring, but gee it seemed like Champion Data gave Rory Laird a raw deal today.

30 touches, 5 contested at 83%, 8 marks, 1 clearance, 2 inside 50's, 0 frees against and only 2 clangers for 96 AF and a measly 74 SC.

Heath Shaw tons up regularly on these stats so what is the deal? I can't recall Champion Data making an error this bad and its probably cost his owners around 25 points.

More handballs than kicks, very few contested touches and very few tackles to pad out the numbers.

AF does account for kicks/handball ratio and tackles so maybe more of a case of a lot of cheap handballs, backwards/short kicks and uncontested marks from team mates which aren't valued as highly. Throw in the fact that maybe his stats didn't come in the time where the game mattered and there's your 20 point discrepancy

I hope people don't think Champion Data just sit down twirling their moustaches figuring out ways to screw people over just because they 'don't have him in their sides'... Yeah that's why Mav Weller had 72 SC vs 45 AF...

[Grazz]

M Boyd, 27 Kicks 7 Handballs, 9 Marks & 0 Tackles at 79% DE - 128SC
R Laird, 11 Kicks 19 Handballs, 8 Marks & 0 Tackles at 83% DE - 74SC

SHAFTED

Keep in mind SC really does hate handballing.

That's why Priddis will never be a 120+ player. He is a Contested Beast, Efficiency is relatively good and is a strong mark. He doesn't kick anywhere near enough.

I think Laird deserved a 95, probably not much more than that though.

Think you're about on the money Torp it was somewhere around a 90-100 point game.

[Ringo]

M Boyd, 27 Kicks 7 Handballs, 9 Marks & 0 Tackles at 79% DE - 128SC
R Laird, 11 Kicks 19 Handballs, 8 Marks & 0 Tackles at 83% DE - 74SC

SHAFTED

Seems reasonable to me when effective kicks are worth 4 points and effective handballs 1.5.  Not saying this is the be all and end all but just looking at the scoring for SC as well.
Laird also had 2 clangers to Boyds one so a little difference there as well.

Point I am making is be careful when comparing players and do a bit of analysis first especially players who have the huge kick to handball ratio. Shaw had 19kicks and 3 handballs in his game as well.

[Grazz]

I'm not usually one to complain about scoring, but gee it seemed like Champion Data gave Rory Laird a raw deal today.

30 touches, 5 contested at 83%, 8 marks, 1 clearance, 2 inside 50's, 0 frees against and only 2 clangers for 96 AF and a measly 74 SC.

Heath Shaw tons up regularly on these stats so what is the deal? I can't recall Champion Data making an error this bad and its probably cost his owners around 25 points.

More handballs than kicks, very few contested touches and very few tackles to pad out the numbers.

AF does account for kicks/handball ratio and tackles so maybe more of a case of a lot of cheap handballs, backwards/short kicks and uncontested marks from team mates which aren't valued as highly. Throw in the fact that maybe his stats didn't come in the time where the game mattered and there's your 20 point discrepancy

I hope people don't think Champion Data just sit down twirling their moustaches figuring out ways to screw people over just because they 'don't have him in their sides'... Yeah that's why Mav Weller had 72 SC vs 45 AF...

Nuh not at all, every now and then a player does get shafted by CD though seen it before and no doubt will see it again, this was one of those times.
The scoring system is to complex and opinionated which at times leads it into these situations just as it over inflates scores sometimes. No one system is perfect.

[MontyJnr]

I'm not usually one to complain about scoring, but gee it seemed like Champion Data gave Rory Laird a raw deal today.

30 touches, 5 contested at 83%, 8 marks, 1 clearance, 2 inside 50's, 0 frees against and only 2 clangers for 96 AF and a measly 74 SC.

Heath Shaw tons up regularly on these stats so what is the deal? I can't recall Champion Data making an error this bad and its probably cost his owners around 25 points.

More handballs than kicks, very few contested touches and very few tackles to pad out the numbers.

AF does account for kicks/handball ratio and tackles so maybe more of a case of a lot of cheap handballs, backwards/short kicks and uncontested marks from team mates which aren't valued as highly. Throw in the fact that maybe his stats didn't come in the time where the game mattered and there's your 20 point discrepancy

I hope people don't think Champion Data just sit down twirling their moustaches figuring out ways to screw people over just because they 'don't have him in their sides'... Yeah that's why Mav Weller had 72 SC vs 45 AF...

Of course I don't think Champion Data deliberately try and screw people over ::). Doesn't mean they don't make mistakes though.

I followed the entire game. Laird had 11 touches in the first quarter (when the game mattered) and they only gave him 13 SC for that. My guess is that the rest of his game was scored correctly, but they never corrected the initial error.

The official AFL Supercoach twitter page explained in a tweet today that there was a major data outage in Sydney and that a number of online services (including fantasy sites) were affected. I'm sure many others noticed the difficulty in obtaining scores today.

The Laird error may be associated with this.

[DazBurg]

could also be a fact that even though he had a lot of possessions perhaps a lot were cheap and not influential ? (i didn't watcht he game but looking at the advanced stats on afl.com.au)

for a player with 30 touches to have
1 clearance
2 rebound 50's
2 inside 50's
and nothing else

where as people point out boyd as an a example had
1 clearance
5 rebound 50's
2 inside 50's
4 1 %'s

again i'm not sure and have neither player so not complaining at all just wondering if this may be the case

as it seems Laird has a lot of touches but what actual influence did he have?

[SilverLion]

And it begins....

"Rory Laird (corked thigh) our only injury concern tonight. Fingers crossed for @stkildafc boys McCartin & Goddard

[MontyJnr]

could also be a fact that even though he had a lot of possessions perhaps a lot were cheap and not influential ? (i didn't watcht he game but looking at the advanced stats on afl.com.au)

for a player with 30 touches to have
1 clearance
2 rebound 50's
2 inside 50's
and nothing else

where as people point out boyd as an a example had
1 clearance
5 rebound 50's
2 inside 50's
4 1 %'s

again i'm not sure and have neither player so not complaining at all just wondering if this may be the case

as it seems Laird has a lot of touches but what actual influence did he have?

Another person obsessed with trying to justify Champion Data's decision...

He went at 83%

8 uncontested marks: 8 x 2 points = 16 points
11 uncontested kicks: 11 x 4 points = 44 points
19 uncontested handballs: 19 x 1.5 points = 28.5 points

= 88.5 points total

This is basically the minimum raw stat points. He had 5 contested touches though and I've scored all this as uncontested. This is balanced out by disregarding his 5 ineffective touches. He had 11 touches in the first and sat out the end of the game, so it wasn't done in junk time.

But I suppose we'll all just trust Champion Data's "magic" weighting system ::)

[Gandalf123]

I would of been angry if he scored 2 pts less, but he got me over the line by a point in one league, still shafted tho

[plumdog millionaire]

could also be a fact that even though he had a lot of possessions perhaps a lot were cheap and not influential ? (i didn't watcht he game but looking at the advanced stats on afl.com.au)

for a player with 30 touches to have
1 clearance
2 rebound 50's
2 inside 50's
and nothing else

where as people point out boyd as an a example had
1 clearance
5 rebound 50's
2 inside 50's
4 1 %'s

again i'm not sure and have neither player so not complaining at all just wondering if this may be the case

as it seems Laird has a lot of touches but what actual influence did he have?

Another person obsessed with trying to justify Champion Data's decision...

He went at 83%

8 uncontested marks: 8 x 2 points = 16 points
11 uncontested kicks: 11 x 4 points = 44 points
19 uncontested handballs: 19 x 1.5 points = 28.5 points

= 88.5 points total

This is basically the minimum raw stat points. He had 5 contested touches though and I've scored all this as uncontested. This is balanced out by disregarding his 5 ineffective touches. He had 11 touches in the first and sat out the end of the game, so it wasn't done in junk time.

But I suppose we'll all just trust Champion Data's "magic" weighting system ::)

I don't think anyone trusts it lol, there's barely any transparency to it. Just gotta accept it for what it is and be left wondering how

[shaker]

Yeah it sucks look at Zaha great game and only 20 ripped off  :P

[GoTheEagles]

Yeah it sucks look at Zaha great game and only 20 ripped off  :P

hahahahahahahaha

[King_Robbo]

M Boyd, 27 Kicks 7 Handballs, 9 Marks & 0 Tackles at 79% DE - 128SC
R Laird, 11 Kicks 19 Handballs, 8 Marks & 0 Tackles at 83% DE - 74SC

SHAFTED

I can't believe this conversation..
There are so many factors that go into the SC scoring system. It's not a simple matter of player x got 30 touches at 80% efficiency = 100 sc
For example there are things like
- meters gained
- pressure acts
- score involvements
- interpret marks
- contested marks
- contested possessions

In regards to the point above, if you watched the dogs v west coast game Boyd had a lot of 30-40 meter chip kicks that hit targets and turned defensive to attack. These kicks would be rated a lot higher on the points scale as opposed to a cheap handball receive out the back. I'll admit I didn't watch the Adel v Stk game but based on pure numbers 30 touches for Laird, only 5 contested, a lot of handball receives and handballs.. Seems a pretty outside ineffective game.

Not to say that CD don't make mistakes or sometimes my eyebrows are raised at some scores, but to think that it's a simple math like the post above is naive.

If you want a 'simple' fantasy game where the scores are set in stone, go play DT.
However I choose to only play SC because the scoring system is more accurate and rewards the best players. I.e. in DT you can kick it 30 meters straight to the opposition which costs a goal and you still get 3 points. That my friends is a laughable scoring system.

[MontyJnr]

M Boyd, 27 Kicks 7 Handballs, 9 Marks & 0 Tackles at 79% DE - 128SC
R Laird, 11 Kicks 19 Handballs, 8 Marks & 0 Tackles at 83% DE - 74SC

SHAFTED

I can't believe this conversation..
There are so many factors that go into the SC scoring system. It's not a simple matter of player x got 30 touches at 80% efficiency = 100 sc
For example there are things like
- meters gained
- pressure acts
- score involvements
- interpret marks
- contested marks
- contested possessions

In regards to the point above, if you watched the dogs v west coast game Boyd had a lot of 30-40 meter chip kicks that hit targets and turned defensive to attack. These kicks would be rated a lot higher on the points scale as opposed to a cheap handball receive out the back. I'll admit I didn't watch the Adel v Stk game but based on pure numbers 30 touches for Laird, only 5 contested, a lot of handball receives and handballs.. Seems a pretty outside ineffective game.

Not to say that CD don't make mistakes or sometimes my eyebrows are raised at some scores, but to think that it's a simple math like the post above is naive.

If you want a 'simple' fantasy game where the scores are set in stone, go play DT.
However I choose to only play SC because the scoring system is more accurate and rewards the best players. I.e. in DT you can kick it 30 meters straight to the opposition which costs a goal and you still get 3 points. That my friends is a laughable scoring system.

The only reason im bringing up the 'simple' stats is because I'm highlighting the bare minimum of what Laird should have scored for his effective touches. You can't honestly tell me they would give less than 1.5 points for an effective handball, regardless of whether it was cheap out the back or not. Obviously when you factor in the extra things like pressure acts, metres gained, contested touches etc. his score will be greater.

Laird should have got a bare minimum 88 but more likely a 95-100 when you factor in the 'extras'.

A 100 is still rightfully inferior to Boyd's 128, so people need to stop getting upset about that comparison. No one said Laird played a better game than Boyd.

[Judd Magic]

M Boyd, 27 Kicks 7 Handballs, 9 Marks & 0 Tackles at 79% DE - 128SC
R Laird, 11 Kicks 19 Handballs, 8 Marks & 0 Tackles at 83% DE - 74SC

SHAFTED

I can't believe this conversation..
There are so many factors that go into the SC scoring system. It's not a simple matter of player x got 30 touches at 80% efficiency = 100 sc
For example there are things like
- meters gained
- pressure acts
- score involvements
- interpret marks
- contested marks
- contested possessions

In regards to the point above, if you watched the dogs v west coast game Boyd had a lot of 30-40 meter chip kicks that hit targets and turned defensive to attack. These kicks would be rated a lot higher on the points scale as opposed to a cheap handball receive out the back. I'll admit I didn't watch the Adel v Stk game but based on pure numbers 30 touches for Laird, only 5 contested, a lot of handball receives and handballs.. Seems a pretty outside ineffective game.

Not to say that CD don't make mistakes or sometimes my eyebrows are raised at some scores, but to think that it's a simple math like the post above is naive.

If you want a 'simple' fantasy game where the scores are set in stone, go play DT.
However I choose to only play SC because the scoring system is more accurate and rewards the best players. I.e. in DT you can kick it 30 meters straight to the opposition which costs a goal and you still get 3 points. That my friends is a laughable scoring system.

The only reason im bringing up the 'simple' stats is because I'm highlighting the bare minimum of what Laird should have scored for his effective touches. You can't honestly tell me they would give less than 1.5 points for an effective handball, regardless of whether it was cheap out the back or not. Obviously when you factor in the extra things like pressure acts, metres gained, contested touches etc. his score will be greater.

Laird should have got a bare minimum 88 but more likely a 95-100 when you factor in the 'extras'.

A 100 is still rightfully inferior to Boyd's 128, so people need to stop getting upset about that comparison. No one said Laird played a better game than Boyd.

Top reply Monty Jnr.  8)