CAS verdict

[Drak]

So, I have a question. Since Essendon aren't allowed to pay the 12 players and must pay a certain amount of the salary cap, any top up players they get, would be on some pretty decent coin. Am I right in saying this?

I doubt it, the players banned will still be getting paid. And Essendon will be given additional cap to bring in top ups. Exactly the same as the NAB cup last year. I think it was $200,000 extra for the NAB series.

[GCSkiwi]

So, I have a question. Since Essendon aren't allowed to pay the 12 players and must pay a certain amount of the salary cap, any top up players they get, would be on some pretty decent coin. Am I right in saying this?

I haven't seen anywhere that they aren't allowed to pay them? Players are suspended from playing but I would have thought given the circumstances the club has to honour their contracts, or else be sued into the ground (which may happen anyway).

[Capper]

So, I have a question. Since Essendon aren't allowed to pay the 12 players and must pay a certain amount of the salary cap, any top up players they get, would be on some pretty decent coin. Am I right in saying this?

no i think they get minimum wage.

My question is are Port, Melbourne, Saints and Dogs allowed to top up their players?

Nigel Thorne ‏@Tabs_here  4s4 seconds ago
@Robbo_heraldsun @AFL Are @pafc @melbournefc @westernbulldogs @stkildafc allowed to top up their players if @EssendonFC are? #Itsonlyfair

[ossie85]

So, I have a question. Since Essendon aren't allowed to pay the 12 players and must pay a certain amount of the salary cap, any top up players they get, would be on some pretty decent coin. Am I right in saying this?

no i think they get minimum wage.

My question is are Port, Melbourne, Saints and Dogs allowed to top up their players?

Nigel Thorne ‏@Tabs_here  4s4 seconds ago
@Robbo_heraldsun @AFL Are @pafc @melbournefc @westernbulldogs @stkildafc allowed to top up their players if @EssendonFC are? #Itsonlyfair

They should be. If Essendon are allowed 12 replacements, the others should be allowed replacements also.

The question then comes... how to they draft them?

[RiOtChEsS]

 ;D ;D ;D lol Torps ;D

[_wato]

Summary of the AFLPA statements. Comment sourced from Bigfooty. Have been very curious, but it doesn't make sense to me? He is right after all

- As is stands, we are struggling to understand how the CAS decision can be so different to that of the AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal, Chaired by David Jones and including John Nixon and Wayne Henwood, who so emphatically rejected ASADA’s case.

With respect to the sanction, we cannot comprehend how the players have received the maximum sanction under the Code.

- We are staggered to read comments attributed to the ASADA CEO today, that “there were very little grounds for the players to claim they were at no significant fault.” This is despite his previous recommendation to WADA and the AFL that it would be appropriate to reduce the sanction on the basis of no significant fault or negligence.

- In circumstances where they’ve been deceived, I ask this question â€" what more could the players have done to ensure the supplements were compliant? We believe this is a case where the “no significant fault or negligence” provision should have been applied.

[ossie85]

- In circumstances where they’ve been deceived, I ask this question â€" what more could the players have done to ensure the supplements were compliant? We believe this is a case where the “no significant fault or negligence” provision should have been applied.

I'm told the players didn't declare the supplements when asked by ASADA testing in 2012. That's pretty damning.

And you can't use the 'I didn't know what they were giving me' defense in drug cases. You just can't. Otherwise no one would ever be guilty of drugs ever.

[BratPack]

So this is what is happening

- Essendon can immediately upgrade Five players on the Rookie List. Sign up to 10 Top Up Players
- All suspended players still under the cap, Essendon will get an allowance over the cap to sign top up players
- Melbourne, Bulldogs, Port (2) and St Kilda can upgrade rookies to replace suspended players
- Watson's Brownlow to be decided at Commission hearing in February (In other words, he's flowered)

[GCSkiwi]

- In circumstances where they’ve been deceived, I ask this question â€" what more could the players have done to ensure the supplements were compliant? We believe this is a case where the “no significant fault or negligence” provision should have been applied.

I'm told the players didn't declare the supplements when asked by ASADA testing in 2012. That's pretty damning.

And you can't use the 'I didn't know what they were giving me' defense in drug cases. You just can't. Otherwise no one would ever be guilty of drugs ever.

To quote the CAS decision (article 155 iv): "No player asked the club doctor - the obvious first port of call - for advice about Thymosin, although all signed a consent form to its administration. Given that it is the primary responsibility of a Player to ensure that he does not make use of a prohibited substance, the Players' lack of curiosity is fatal to this particular plea*. Nor is it relevant that a player received only a handful of injections as distinct from multiple injections. The appropriate time to make enquiry was when the Player consented to submit to the regime of which he was ex hypothesi aware." 

* the plea being leniency on account of no significant fault or negligence 

The message to players is crystal, if you are not 100% sure of what you're taking, don't take it. 155i-iii also detail steps they could/should have taken but basically it was hiding it from Doc Reid that screwed them.

Ossie is totally right, if you let them off on this defense then you kiss antidoping control goodbye, because you just load everyone up on all the drugs under the sun and then pin it on some scapegoat who told them it was just vitamin c...

[Ringo]

For anyone interested the full decision can be found here http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Arbitral_Award_WADA_ESSENDON.pdf

I'm part way through it and man, unless there's a big turnaround it's pretty damning. Dank should never work in sports again and Bruce Reid should receive a metric flowerton of compensation because it seems as though he did absolutely everything he could and should have done, short of going directly to the AFL himself, and he got absolutely dragged through the mud.

Agree Kiwi - Doing my head in reading it. Dr Reid by the report did all he could to find out what was being given but was kept at arms length over riden by Hird. Dank as you say should never work in sports again.

The lesson to be learned is that players must question what is put into their bodies and not rely on what is told.  The example of player being treated for a heart complaint and the specialist referring to Dr Reid who knew nothing is concerning. 

THe players not declaring the pre game pills they were given by Dank is pretty damning but who knows what they were told they were talking and whether they needed to declare it.

Feel sorry for the players though as they are banned basically till 13th November 2016. Can start resume training in August is my understanding.

The club will probably be sued by players for negligence under the WHS by players and this will effect their bottom line.

[Grufflez]

Would like to thank CGSKiwi for clearing a few things up & answering peoples questions.

[kilbluff1985]

some supporters are still hopeful we will perform well this year are ignorant and in denial i'm completely expecting a wooden spoon

[GCSkiwi]

Would like to thank CGSKiwi for clearing a few things up & answering peoples questions.

No problem, glad it's useful - to qualify and add a disclaimer I'm not a lawyer and I'm providing purely my own opinion/speculations/interpretations etc etc etc  ;D

some supporters are still hopeful we will perform well this year are ignorant and in denial i'm completely expecting a wooden spoon

Honestly, depending on who you get as top ups I think there's a chance you could avoid the spoon, but it will be a close fight between the blues, lions and bombers I reckon. Blues have struggled as a unit, the influence of Bolton on turning that around is yet to be seen but until they mesh better as a team they're still going to struggle, same can be said for the lions... The looks of all the speculative new best 22's aren't great but add in 10 more experienced players and you can still put up a fight.

[Capper]

some supporters are still hopeful we will perform well this year are ignorant and in denial i'm completely expecting a wooden spoon

Carlton will give you a run for your money

[Drak]

Yeah Brisbane and Carlton are pretty terrible.

Brisbane has a midfield... and thats all.

Carlton have.... Jacob Wietering. And thats all.