2015 WXV Awards and 2015 Rules Discussion

[Vinny]

20% looks good to me.

[Ricochet]

20% looks good to me.

[Nige]

Probably the wrong thread to discuss this btw.

That won't stop anybody. :P

[meow meow]

Meow"I'll change the 90% to 70% and have a look at what it does for all players/caps.

30% would have Liberatore at a 74 average across 17 games.

20% has him at 85 across 17 games.

Would you settle for 20% Holz?"


I think we need to look at guys like Aaron Black too.

Aaron Black would cost more points for sure. BUT THAT'S WHY WE LIFT THE MAX CAP. It takes all that into account.

[Holz]

25% sounds good to me :P

but ill support 20%

there you go Purp that was relatively painless wasnt it.

"A camel looks like a horse that was planned by a committee."  Sir Alexander Arnold Constantine Issigonis

another quote to come from Holz.

[Ricochet]

re-vote on the proposed cap rule?

[Vinny]

"A camel looks like a horse that was planned by a committee."  Sir Alexander Arnold Constantine Issigonis

another quote to come from Holz.

Haha you are one weird guy Holz

[Holz]

"A camel looks like a horse that was planned by a committee."  Sir Alexander Arnold Constantine Issigonis

another quote to come from Holz.

Haha you are one weird guy Holz

I think the word you were searching for was learned

[Vinny]

"A camel looks like a horse that was planned by a committee."  Sir Alexander Arnold Constantine Issigonis

another quote to come from Holz.

Haha you are one weird guy Holz

I think the word you were searching for was learned

Nope, weird was the one. :P

[Hellopplz]

Probably the wrong thread to discuss this btw.

That won't stop anybody. :P

That's why I moved it :P.

[Purple 77]

Haven't read any of the recent cap discussion.

But yeah, vote is done. Let's move on. The time for this discussion was meant to be before the first vote was sent.

[PowerBug]

that method is attrocious. Why bring round 14 into it? Just play 2 rounds over the 3 bye rounds, the only way it would work.

In AXV we play 3 rounds across the three bye rounds. Bad luck for those that have half their squad missing. How many WXV teams are there because with 16 AXV sides there is on average 16.5 named players available to each side per bye round, when we need to name 15. Obviously this number fluctuates wildly between teams and between rounds.

If you have 18 WXV sides though then that leaves 14.6666 players available to each team (on average) per week so that method probably isn't best.

[meow meow]

Haven't read any of the recent cap discussion.

But yeah, vote is done. Let's move on. The time for this discussion was meant to be before the first vote was sent.

To be fair it wasn't explained very well.

Like if we counted the best of 2015 vs 90% of 2014 the average for each team would be 33070 points but I didn't see anything in the vote about raising the max cap.

Oh well, I'll ramble on about it for the next 50 weeks until next years vote.

[meow meow]

Before and after

The current average for WXV teams is 27863. We have a 30000 cap.
If we go at 80% of 2014 the average would be 31899. A 33000 cap would be the right amount
If we go at 90% of 2014 the average would be 33070. A 34000 cap would be the right amount
There's not much change to most teams, but the teams that change are for the right reasons

With the new caps the difference between the average and max doesn't have to be as a high because all player's higher averages are the one that is factored in to the team average. It assumes that JOM has been playing all year at 90% of his 2014 average. It assumes that Aaron Black has been scoring at 90% of his 2014 average.

80%      90%     2015
34842   36200   30271   Beijing - over because they had 37 players score, not including Petracca. Too many
33120   34235   27303   Berlin - JPOD 1093 & Fletcher 438 extra points distort this. Daisy/Crouch cost more
27293   28062   24923   Buenos Aires
26173   27454   21339   Cairo - still heaps under despite Prestia, Hanley and McKenzie gaining points
34099   35289   31194   Cape Town - too many players
33398   34240   30681   Christchurch - Gibbs & Minson gain plenty
33448   34488   30770   Dublin - NDS/Sloane/Hansen too cheap
32494   33433   30153   London - go from being over to under, will cut 1200 from Reily and Winderlich
33323   34588   30729   Mexico City - Bartel & Rocky too cheap
34665   35960   29366   Moscow - JOM and Greenwood gain heaps, have lots of scorers
23017   24160   17850   NDT
33108   34637   28853   New York - Libba and Duncan priced correctly
33155   34229   29049   Pacific - Mohr, M.Thomas and Otten account for 1800 points
35917   37066   31478   PNL - too many players, Myers costs more than 1 point, Patton more than 38
33071   34667   26652   Rio - HMac, Chappy, Kornes cost 2800, GAJ gains 1085 points
28113   29008   24081   Seoul - Swallow gains 1086, still well under
34149   35420   30167   Tokyo - too many players
30795   32124   26676   Toronto - L.Adams + Grima = 1500 points

As you can see, the shower teams are still shower and the hoarders are the ones who cop it. The way a cap should work.
Common sense says that GAJ is worth more than 693 points but that's all he costs under the current system.

[DazBurg]

Before and after

The current average for WXV teams is 27863. We have a 30000 cap.
If we go at 80% of 2014 the average would be 31899. A 33000 cap would be the right amount
If we go at 90% of 2014 the average would be 33070. A 34000 cap would be the right amount
There's not much change to most teams, but the teams that change are for the right reasons

With the new caps the difference between the average and max doesn't have to be as a high because all player's higher averages are the one that is factored in to the team average. It assumes that JOM has been playing all year at 90% of his 2014 average. It assumes that Aaron Black has been scoring at 90% of his 2014 average.

80%      90%     2015
34842   36200   30271   Beijing - over because they had 37 players score, not including Petracca. Too many
33120   34235   27303   Berlin - JPOD 1093 & Fletcher 438 extra points distort this. Daisy/Crouch cost more
27293   28062   24923   Buenos Aires
26173   27454   21339   Cairo - still heaps under despite Prestia, Hanley and McKenzie gaining points
34099   35289   31194   Cape Town - too many players
33398   34240   30681   Christchurch - Gibbs & Minson gain plenty
33448   34488   30770   Dublin - NDS/Sloane/Hansen too cheap
32494   33433   30153   London - go from being over to under, will cut 1200 from Reily and Winderlich
33323   34588   30729   Mexico City - Bartel & Rocky too cheap
34665   35960   29366   Moscow - JOM and Greenwood gain heaps, have lots of scorers
23017   24160   17850   NDT
33108   34637   28853   New York - Libba and Duncan priced correctly
33155   34229   29049   Pacific - Mohr, M.Thomas and Otten account for 1800 points
35917   37066   31478   PNL - too many players, Myers costs more than 1 point, Patton more than 38
33071   34667   26652   Rio - HMac, Chappy, Kornes cost 2800, GAJ gains 1085 points
28113   29008   24081   Seoul - Swallow gains 1086, still well under
34149   35420   30167   Tokyo - too many players
30795   32124   26676   Toronto - L.Adams + Grima = 1500 points

As you can see, the shower teams are still shower and the hoarders are the ones who cop it. The way a cap should work.
Common sense says that GAJ is worth more than 693 points but that's all he costs under the current system.

my problem with that is
we have been #1 over 2 year straight
so last year we traded a lot of depth out because of it and got in some we hoped would score better (eski springs to mind)

but as toga/holz/memph was trying to say

we end up what 3000 over in the 90% one and almost the same in the 80%

it is hard to trade depth out not a lot looking for depth

(i should say not many looking to offer a lot for a heap of depth)

so like toga said we'd rather back in our judgement and let them step up into good players

for PNL we also have a few older ones so our choices are trade what we are waiting to improve or trade our older ones for deals that we'd be better off keeping said older ones

as fair as trades go PNL probably do almost the least amount of teams (i'm sure there are some who do less London springs to mind)
but we should not be punished for keeping our list together rather then making wholesale changes every 2 minutes either

(not complaining at those that do a lot of trade you enjoy it and deserve too so do the way you like)
we like to keep the ones we have as we like them and grow attached so do not want to have to trade heaps just for the sake of it

(i.e that is why i liked the idea of the loyalty bonus as we are that type but i also think if we were going to do a loyalty bonus then it is unfair to those who trade a lot to suddenly have to pay for injured players)

we cannot reward one and punish the other imo

TBH i at first agreed injured players shouldn't cost more (even though we gain from it too (with eski, patton, shiel etc)

but the more this goes ont he more i think we should leave it alone
(i know your point MM about it being unfair for say Dublin to get JOM, Libba etc)
but in saying that you can always better his deal and beat him
it is everyone's choice not to make a better offer to NY and ofc they will take the best offer be it from Dublin, New Delhi, Tokyo or PNL

but my point is we cannot reward one and punish the other (loyalty/injured players)

now i know ppl will say we already reward traders with injured players but it has always been like that so that is what we all signed up for

and we all do gain benefit cap wise from it as well (weather trading or staying under cap or going over less like PNL)

i love worlds the way it is and love the discussion to try to keep evolving and improving but also if it ain't broke don't fix it ;)