2015 WXV Awards and 2015 Rules Discussion

[ossie85]

Now that is the most bullshower thing I have ever heard....

Who doesn't discuss trades during the season  ;)

Those that focus on the current season ;)

If you want to be more like the AFL (which is what the other rules are doing and what admin have stated they try to achieve), then you would introduce something to stop teams talking about trades during the season. ;)

yeah but where would we stop. You could say that coaches get fired for not performing in the AFL perhaps we should do that.

we have sacked coaches for under performing....

But we obviously can't stop people from talking!

[Holz]

On to more important matters.

who is pumped about the Jim Stynes night and the grand final.

Ill be cheering for anyone besides Fyfe to win the medal. but honestly now that Gaz cant win it should be great. Obviously going for my boy Goldy but I think Danger could do some serious damage.

You would think one of Goldy Fyfer Dangerman and Tornoto Pendles should take it home.

[PowerBug]

we have sacked coaches for under performing....

But we obviously can't stop people from talking!

Probably not, most you could do is get people to report PMs about trades to the admin. People will find a way around it though.

[Holz]

we have sacked coaches for under performing....

But we obviously can't stop people from talking!

Probably not, most you could do is get people to report PMs about trades to the admin. People will find a way around it though.

if we want to be like the afl. The teams pushing for flags generally the older players take pay cuts to go for a flag. So maybe if you make a prelim guys over 28 take a 30% reduction in cap points.

While we are at it free agents typcially want to go to the top teams and they largely come from the bottom. So maybe 1-2 players come from the bottom teams each year and the teams can be compensated with first round picks.

I think Danger might want to come to Dublin to go for a flag. As long as i have the cap space all good right?

Seoul can have two first round picks as compo thats fine with me.

[Nige]

^ And this guy wonders why he and Dublin are so flowering disliked.  ::) :P

[RaisyDaisy]

This whole "be like the AFL" thing is starting to give me a headache

[Holz]

^ And this guy wonders why he and Dublin are so flowering disliked.  ::) :P

I obviously dont want it to happen, I just dont like the hypocrisy of picking out things that suit then saying its like the afl lets do it. I have been saying all along dont restrict things just heavily help the bottom teams. I want to give bottom teams more support then they are being given.

Remember under  my system i wanted to give you 5, 21, 24, 27

instead of the 4, 21, 24 that your currently getting. I know you guys are good coaches and you can use that pick to get someone good. If you still struggle next year then you get helped even more.

Dillos are in trouble 3 20 and 23 is helpfull

however 3,4,23,23  is what they really need.

[meow meow]

So Holz and NY, under this system you'd still be able to swap McDonald for Liberatore. This way you won't be swapping McDonald for Liberatore and 1600 points worth of cap space. Libba has a fair point value assigned to him now but it's not going to affect your ability to trade him if the trade itself is fair.

[Holz]

So Holz and NY, under this system you'd still be able to swap McDonald for Liberatore. This way you won't be swapping McDonald for Liberatore and 1600 points worth of cap space. Libba has a fair point value assigned to him now but it's not going to affect your ability to trade him if the trade itself is fair.

thats fine but it was never really about libba. He was just the easiest example. By the way im under the cap with the old system or your new system. I know people think i only care about Dublin but I have always been thinking about the fairness of the comp. I wanted to reward guys with mass injuries in their team.

the biggest issue with the system though i have realised is not only older players but actually up and coming players. Beijing have climbed there way off the bottom of the ladder and now have much more points then the two teams in the grandfinal.

the flaw in the system is this

503    James Aish
562    Sam Mayes
738    Matt Jones
773    Matthew Jaensch
777    Danny Stanley
815    Aaron Black
845    Jared Polec

jaensch yes has been in jured but most of the other guys are fringe players and are down on their form. After climbing off the bottom they will have to trade or drop these kind of guys. The issue is nobody wants to trade them in and i can see that being incredibly annoying for Toga.

Top teams cant get packages of players for stars because they are already over the cap or close to it.
Bottom team dont want to lose their stars for a bunch of players either.

So what is Toga to do.

You say Beijing Cape Town have too many players but what are they to do, its not like they are top of the table. Who should beijing dump?

by the way love the effort going into these posts Meow, top stuff.

[meow meow]

I wanted to reward guys with mass injuries in their team.

Are you sure about that? It's not a case of getting the injury affected players like Libba, Daisy, Grimes and who knows how many others so you've got 2500+ points in your cap more than everyone else?
They'll be rewarded next year when their players return. I don't expect a 'reward' because Gibbs played half a season.

The issue is nobody wants to trade them in and i can see that being incredibly annoying for Toga.

I'm sure there would be plenty of interest if Toga says they're available. A scenario of delisting Stanley, trading Black and Polec for picks isn't going to rip the guts out of their team.

[Holz]

I wanted to reward guys with mass injuries in their team.

Are you sure about that? It's not a case of getting the injury affected players like Libba, Daisy, Grimes and who knows how many others so you've got 2500+ points in your cap more than everyone else?
They'll be rewarded next year when their players return. I don't expect a 'reward' because Gibbs played half a season.

shouldn't the cap be about what actually happened. As i said why should I guy who missed a whole season by above a guy who missed 4 games each season with minor injuries. Thats why the 10% is too small.

Also what about fringe players like Black.

[meow meow]

I wanted to reward guys with mass injuries in their team.

Are you sure about that? It's not a case of getting the injury affected players like Libba, Daisy, Grimes and who knows how many others so you've got 2500+ points in your cap more than everyone else?
They'll be rewarded next year when their players return. I don't expect a 'reward' because Gibbs played half a season.

shouldn't the cap be about what actually happened. As i said why should I guy who missed a whole season by above a guy who missed 4 games each season with minor injuries. Thats why the 10% is too small.

Also what about fringe players like Black.

So you think valuing Liberatore at a 100 average instead of a 110 average is a warped assessment of his value? The cap should be about a players value.

What about Black? As you said, he's a fringe player. It's not like Beijing are low on players, so if they have to trade him for a pick then that's what they'll do. Draft picks turn into players too, you know?

[Purple 77]

Outstanding analysis meow, that has really cleared some air of uncertainty I feel.



I also think Holz, that not once in WXVs history has a player with some value, particularly a gun, would have attracted a premium or discount because of their cap impact. I severely doubt you would overpay for Liberatore because he has a zero cap... that's ludicrous.

Really, the reality is that a coach would go on about their business in regards to trades. Once a trade is agreed upon, THEN they would probably look at their cap impact. Then they'd say "Oh look, I'm over the cap by 2000 points if I do this trade... no matter, these naturally retired AFL players, coupled with me delisting a couple of VFL players from my list, will bring my cap under it again."

[Holz]

I wanted to reward guys with mass injuries in their team.

Are you sure about that? It's not a case of getting the injury affected players like Libba, Daisy, Grimes and who knows how many others so you've got 2500+ points in your cap more than everyone else?
They'll be rewarded next year when their players return. I don't expect a 'reward' because Gibbs played half a season.

shouldn't the cap be about what actually happened. As i said why should I guy who missed a whole season by above a guy who missed 4 games each season with minor injuries. Thats why the 10% is too small.

Also what about fringe players like Black.

So you think valuing Liberatore at a 100 average instead of a 110 average is a warped assessment of his value? The cap should be about a players value.

What about Black? As you said, he's a fringe player. It's not like Beijing are low on players, so if they have to trade him for a pick then that's what they'll do. Draft picks turn into players too, you know?

im interested to see what pick they will get for him.

Yes i think valuing libba as not only a 100 average player but a 100 average player who hasnt missed a game is unfair.

Michael Barlow 116 average (major injury)  next year 84 average missed lots of games. 95 the year after
Taylor Walker 100 average (major injury) next year 69 average from 5 games, year after 80 from 15.
David Mundy 116 average if you remove his 6 injury game (major injury) 89 the next year.

so yes I think a 10% discount for a guy coming off a serious injury that had him out for the season is a warped sense.

By the way when people come to vote this injury should be taken into account. its not ohh he is back lock him in for 110 this year.

I didnt want to go in depth as I have considered on trading him (not for cap reasons) but basically forced to shoot that to pieces now.

[Holz]

Outstanding analysis meow, that has really cleared some air of uncertainty I feel.



I also think Holz, that not once in WXVs history has a player with some value, particularly a gun, would have attracted a premium or discount because of their cap impact. I severely doubt you would overpay for Liberatore because he has a zero cap... that's ludicrous.

Really, the reality is that a coach would go on about their business in regards to trades. Once a trade is agreed upon, THEN they would probably look at their cap impact. Then they'd say "Oh look, I'm over the cap by 2000 points if I do this trade... no matter, these naturally retired AFL players, coupled with me delisting a couple of VFL players from my list, will bring my cap under it again."

I plan loads of moves in advance.

I can explain my reasoning easy.

I can squeeze under the cap with Libba not costing much in the cap for the one year. I think he could have a down year next year and bounce back in 2017.

In my potential team I have SJ, Scott Thompson and Robert Murphy all retiring the end of next year so that clears up cap space for 2017. Which alot of that will go to libba if he can reclaim his form or at least 95+

I dont have anyone retiring this year so my calculations had me under the cap if i pull all my moves and delist Sam Frost.

now im well over, have nobody to delist that I can and stuck in a situation. I dont want to delist SJ Thompson and Murphy as they are vital for my push next year. I have very very little depth and if i dont delist one of my old guys then I need to sack my younger cover, then when they do retire next year i have holes and I cant fix it as i have had to lose all my cover and ill get very late draft picks.

The point in red is potentially true but if coaches go about it that way with lack of planning then thats not a great reflection on the coach.