WXV Expansion

[roo boys!]

I also fear we would lose, (same 18 coaches or not), the attention/attachment/closeness with all the other teams (and even players) in the competition, which is a key unique element in our magnificent competition. Like, when I think of Scott Pendlebury, I think of Toronto. When I think Toronto, I think of great team that has lost momentum etc. And I think of roo boys  :P

There was absolutely no need for you to turn that into a dig at Toronto, I'm beginning to feel like a slightly more successful Cairo nowadays :P

Just clone all the players with #9 on their back (since it's the best number for AFL players). Introduce another GAJ, Sloane, D.Beams, Nic Nat, Stringer, Goddard, Cripps, Cotchin, Gray, Swallow, Scully, Burgoyne, Trengove, James Kelly etc into the competition. Like a mirror match in the original Mortal Kombat.

Who gets Jesse White?

[Nige]

There was absolutely no need for you to turn that into a dig at Toronto, I'm beginning to feel like a slightly more successful Cairo nowadays :P

:(

Who gets Jesse White?

Toronto.  :P

[Holz]

I don't want to be selfish but just saying, in a draft that is considerably weaker than previous years, Buenoes getting their first pick at 10 instead of 4 sets us back a fair bit and significantly reduces the value in what would have been one of our major trading pieces. Plus in allowing the new teams to poach, even though a few players from each team are exempt, it still allows to build a pretty damn solid core on top of all the high draft picks.

If people like it, I'm cool with it but not a fan personally at this stage.

its not selfish its the truth. How can dillos ever bounce back if they cant throught the draft. they should have two top 5 picks. look what brayshaw is doing to help them be competetvie. Got to fix the weak teams first before putting more in.

[Levi434]

So I decided to have a quick play around and see what sort of players I could get from each of the current teams if I were to be managing a new team. Keep in mind that this is just a rough idea and don't be offended if I missed one of your boys as I really just skimmed over each of the teams mainly from here: http://forum.fanfooty.com.au/index.php/topic,99835.0.html

According to current ladder:

First, the top 4 can nominate 5 players that are un-poachable.

1   Dublin Destroyers (J.Selwood, R.Sloane, T.Goldstein, D.Martin, L.Franklin)
2   Paris Nice Lyon Reindeers (M.Priddis, C.Wingard, D.Shiel, M.Lobbe, L.Hodge)
3   Christchurch Saints (J.Elliot, H.Hartlett, D.Zorko, B.Gibbs, L.Picken)
4   Moscow Spetnaz    (D.Heppell, C.Ward, J.O'Meara, N.Natanui, R.Gray)

5th-8th can nominate 6.

5   Mexico City Suns    (T.Rockliff, S.Sidebottom, B.Deledio, J.Lewis, K.Simpson, I.Maric)
6   New York Revolution (M.Liberatore, J.Macrae, H.Bennell, JJ,Kennedy, K.Kolodashnij, H.Shaw)
7   Berlin Brewers (N.Fyfe, J.Steven, A.Treloar, M.Hibberd, J.Viney, C.Dixon)
8   Tokyo Samurai (L.Dahlhaus, K.Jack, S.Motlop, L.Parker, G.Ibbotson, J.Johannisen)

9th-12th can nominate 7.

9   Beijing Thunder (O.Wines, M.Kreuzer, J.Polec, L.Neale, J.Caddy, J.Aish, M.Jeansch)
10   London Royals (D.Hannerbery, J.McVeigh, B.Stanton, M.LeCras, D.Rampe, D.Pearce, S.Edwards)
11   Toronto Wolves (S.Pendlebury, A.Swallow, R.Griffin, B.Cunnington, P.Ryder, J.Ziebell, I.Smith)
12   Pacific Islanders (M.Barlow, J.Redden, T.Mitchell, S.Gibson, J.Martin, C.Guthrie, M.Bontompelli)

13th-16th can nominate 8.

13   Cape Town Cobras (JP.Kennedy, T.Cotchin, D.Tyson. S.Martin, S.Selwood, J.Cameron, S.Higgin, A.Everitt)
14   Rio de Janeiro Jaguars    (B.Houli, G.Ablett, M.Murphy, D.Zaharakis, S.Jacobs, T.Walker, E.Yeo, P.Cripps)
15   Seoul Magpies (P.Dangerfield, B.Ellis, T.Greene, T.Langdon, TJ.Lynch, D.Swallow, C.Sutcliffe, L.Whitfield)
16   Buenos Aires Armadillos (B.Hill, E.Wood, T.Adams, M.Crouch, M.Wallis, J.Schultz, L.Jong, D.Armfield)

17th and 18th can nominate 9.

17   Cairo Sands (B.Smith, N.Smith, D.Beams, D.Prestia, P.Hanley, M.Hucthings, L.Dunstan, S.Mumford, J.Mcgovern)
18   New Delhi Tigers    (S.Coniglio, Z.Clarke, R.Conca, J.Darling, A.Gaff, C.Masten, V.Michie, T.Nicholls, I.Heeney)



So with all those players being exempted here is the list of some players for the easy pickings(Dublin's list):
G.Birchall
A.Rance
J.Gunston
J.Roughead
J.Watson
T.Boak
D.Mundy
T.Mcdonald
N.Jones
J.Westhoff
C.Rioli
N.Malceski
J.Harborw
J.Billings
T.Scully
The Package
S.Mitchell
M.Boyd
N.Hrovat
W.Minson
P.Seedsman
L.Greenwood



Lol this is just a list from the top 4 teams and it is already loaded.

Add 5 players from this list to picks 2, 6, 8, 12, 14, 18 and that will be.....

[Toga]

Probably almost beating a couple of the lower teams already...

[Holz]

Probably almost beating a couple of the lower teams already...

just alf that list each with massive draft concession would have both in the top 8

[Jukes]

Cheers for not poaching Arma from me mate :P

[Purple 77]

Just reminding that no more than 2 players from each team would be poached. But yeah, can't just introduce two non competitive teams.

[Ringo]

Still a little concerned with 20 teams with the possible struggle at times to name a team.

Using my team as an example

I have 13 players yet to play a game due to injury or rookie listed or in some cases eg Giles not being picked,
A further 9 players have played 6 games or less.

So basically 50% of my list have played 0 or less than 6 games. So you can see some weeks with injuries as well only had 18 players to pick from and then had to play OOP.

Suspect most mid tier teams will be in a similar position hence my reservations about extending the competition to 20 and suggesting 2 conferences involving 24 teams. When the conferences play off it is possible for teams to be similar as each conference will have the same availability of players.

Will however work with what is decided but just expressing the concern with 20 teams.

[Memphistopheles]

Is also an interesting idea Memph! I'd like it especially if it meant having an entirely new 18 coaches.

But, it might just end me having to administrate 36 coaches/teams. Would need another committed partner that I could easily co-ordinate with (*ahem* *probably only oz*).

I might be open to putting my hand up for this perhaps - I'd have to see how I'm placed (could depend on whether I get a new job I applied for)

This would be the biggest issue - finding a league admin to help run the second conference and work with you. But, I'm sure there's someone around that could help do it, especially if they had a handy spreadsheet like you seem to have.

We have been blessed with the fantastic coaching committee we currently have... I reckon finding 18 more would be pushing it. A concept like this would need the cohesion we have whilst doubling the players, and I think that's not within reach.

I disagree with you here. Every time a World XV coaching spot comes up there are loads of applicants. Some of our current teams have co-coaches and assistants who might perhaps be inclined to split in to two teams as well. The hardest challenge I think would be finding 18 coach as committed and active as the current bunch - but that should come over time (we can replace the crap ones until we get there).

I also fear we would lose, (same 18 coaches or not), the attention/attachment/closeness with all the other teams (and even players) in the competition, which is a key unique element in our magnificent competition. Like, when I think of Scott Pendlebury, I think of Toronto. When I think Toronto, I think of great team that has lost momentum etc. And I think of roo boys  :P

The unique side of things I agree with but, it can't really be helped.

However, I don't think we would lose the attention as heading in the the second season with two conferences we would then have our own 'Champions League' which would spark people's interest.

The inter-conference competitions could extend further than that - instead of an Australian Conference we could even have a second lot of 18 World teams and they could play throughout the season and slot in to the Africonia, Europe, Asia and America leagues and pad out the AAP Alliance and EurAsia.

Imagine having a full-blooded 18 team EurAsia league and the same with the AAP Alliance - winning that would be even more meaningful then.

Or 9 team Europe, Africonia, Asia and America ladders - Dublin might dominate World I conference but they could find the competition they desire from the other Europe teams in World II. I'm sure some of the more creative heads in here could help us come up with some more competitions/ideas to keep the interest levels high. Plus there's a whole new 18 coaches who would add to the Worlds community!

It might even require three admins perhaps. One to do Worlds I, one to do Worlds II and one to run the Inter-League competitions.

[Ricochet]

I like the Champs League idea. Its kinda been tried (although we could do it a lot better) between the four AXV, WXV, BXV and EXV. I was going to try and do it properly but just don't have the time to run it. Personally, if we were going to do a champs league then inter-comp would be my vote

[Purple 77]

A true and legitimate Champions League would be amazing; I still would like to see one amongst Worlds, Euros, British and Asia.

In regards to finding coaches, I've always been quite proud that a Worlds position is always in demand. I have no doubts we'd find a dozen more committed coaches, but it's the last few positions that I doubt we'd find the people we're looking for.



Since it was pointed out, I'm concerned that we won't consistently have 15 players available for 20 teams each and every week. I'm also not at all keen to reduce the field to 14... its called the World XVs. I won't change that.

But, I remember oz posing the idea that we give 30 points to players that played in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL/NEAFL, and 60 points to the players named in their teams best players. This idea can even be extended into the Worlds reserves competition. At the moment, the best reserves teams are simply the ones that have the most players play in the AFL. However, by introducing the 30/60 point concept, we can even up the numbers... even making the teams able to field 10 or 15 players max, so that the reserves competition becomes a bit more fair and, well, more of a competition.

At the moment, we have 396 AFL players play per week (18*22). 270 of these players play in Worlds (18*15) every week.

Under my 20-team proposal, we would need 300 players (18*20) every week. Who knows how many AFL players play in either the AFL level or the one below, but it would be in excess of 500 surely? This way, fielding 15 players per team shouldn't be a problem.

[Ricochet]

In regards to teams not fielding 15 (basically us)... I guess this is where a low Max Cap forces depth has to be traded to those that have the room. Because I can't remember, how long has the cap been at the level it is?

[Memphistopheles]

But, I remember oz posing the idea that we give 30 points to players that played in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL/NEAFL, and 60 points to the players named in their teams best players. This idea can even be extended into the Worlds reserves competition. At the moment, the best reserves teams are simply the ones that have the most players play in the AFL. However, by introducing the 30/60 point concept, we can even up the numbers... even making the teams able to field 10 or 15 players max, so that the reserves competition becomes a bit more fair and, well, more of a competition.

Not a fan of this plan. It's really getting away from the player scoring SuperCoach element of the game by giving players a blanket 30 points points for playing in the reserves (or 60 if they're in the best).

I think this comp should only be based on AFL scores.

Also who's responsible for checking which players are in the best each week in the reserves - that would be a lot of work. I wouldn't have time to do it for the Cape Town players that's for sure. Also do those competitions update their scores as regularly as the AFL? In other words would we be waiting ages on Mon/Tues to find out final NEAFL best players?

Unfortunately I can't see expanding the current competition past 18 teams being viable which is why I suggested a whole new league/conference.

Also RE: Champions League - I can't see it working properly either with Worlds, Euros, Asians and British. The different scoring systems make it too hard - someone will always be complaining about the scaling system. You'd be much better off expanding each of the competitions to have four of their own leagues with the same scoring and then having Champions League matches between those leagues I think.

But, that's going in to the bigger picture. Probably would involve creating an actual game and promoting it to a wider audience, not just running the XVs comp in a forum. Something I have been thinking about doing actually but, haven't had the time for it.

[Ringo]

Been doing some work on my suggestion and I do not care if it is rejected or not but putting the detail out there.

We split into to a Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere Conference of 12 teams each

Each Conference runs their own competition
Play each other once
Then Top 6 and bottom 6 play off for final positions. (16 weeks competition)
Top 2 from both conferences then play off over 2 weeks to decide championship.
During Byes have a 3 match series Northern Hemisphere v Southern Hemisphere
This accounts for 21 weeks of the competition meaning no finals etc in final round avoiding the general soreness.

Players from teams that change conference eg Dublin will go to the pool for the Southern Conference allowing the 3 new teams to draft from.

Suggested Teams using our existing 18

Northern Hemisphere
Dublin
Paris
Moscow
New York
Berlin
Tokyo
Bejing
London
Toronto

Southern Hemisphere
Christchurch
Mexico*
Pacific
Capetown
Rio De Janeiro
Seoul*
Buenos Airies
Cairo*
New Delhi*

* have taken a bit of licence here but these are teams closest equator and may want to relocate.

Allows 3 new teams to be brought into each conference.

Team lists with reduction in teams to 12 to be increased to 48 (including 4 rookies) which will assist teams with depth and match AFL lists.  Also maybe give the three teams a list of 50 which must be reduced to 48 in year 3 similar to concessions given to GWS and Suns.

With the establishment of the 9 team conference should mean that maximum of 405 players become available in each conference for the three new teams to draft from.

The three new teams to draft 45 players initially as well from these player so they equate to existing teams with remaining players to go into drafts for all to pick from to increase lists to 48.

feel free to tear apart comment amend.