Blues 2016 H&A Discussion

[Mat0369]

An interesting quote from this article

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2015-carlton-list-manager-steven-silvagni-faces-uphill-battle-rebuilding-blues-list/story-fnp04d70-1227380047902

The new Blues list manager wasn’t on board last year, but he was seen by senior AFL officials shaking his head as Carlton picked Boekhorst when players such as key defender Hugh Goddard were available.

Apparently we are in salary cap purgatory. This includes these two gems

Dale Thomas was recruited on a hefty deal, only for ankle and shoulder injuries to turn the Collingwood star into a modest Carlton flanker.

His four-year deal has a trigger clause for a fifth year that Thomas himself can activate â€" and why wouldn’t he at $750,000 a year?

and

Liam Jones has kicked one goal in the past month â€" just six for the year â€" and was savaged for his five-possession performance against Sydney.

He isn’t going anywhere given he signed a three-year deal after being swapped for pick 46 in trade week, despite zero other suitors apart from his former club the Bulldogs.

[powersuperkents]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.   

[Big Mac]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Yeh I really cannot figure out why they picked him

They do need pace after Garlett/Betts both left, but surely those are 'icing' type players. Worry about the cake first

[Mat0369]

We had this conversation around draft time, I was pretty pissed we took Boekhorst where we did mainly because of his age. I would have happily taken him as our 2nd round pick because he did fit a need (outside mid with pace to burn).

Apparently the Dons were playing mind games with Carlton and saying they were going to take Boek with the pick they took Laverde meaning Carlton had to get him there or risk losing him. This is another reason I am glad that Mick's mate from Rogers is gone.

It was a draft that was supposed to be deep on key position talent, somewhere we are obviously thin, we took one key position player in the draft at pick 63 in Jayden Foster and topped up with Liam freaking Jones. To make matters worse, we lack small forwards, we go out and recruit Jason Tutt while Lambert was under our noses for multiple years at the Northern Blues. We passed him over multiple times in the rookie draft so we would have given up less for Lambert then we did for Tutt.

It will be interesting to see who attracts value and if we trade hard for some players and what direction we head in the draft. I haven't looked into this years draft class that much but we will likely have a top 3 pick. We can't waste it and need to try and maximise as much value as possible through all our picks

[Mat0369]

Actually we could have 3 father son pickups this year. Rice, Silvagni and Bradley. Rice is a halfback/wing, Jack is a key position prospect at both ends of the ground that has played some midfield and Jake is a lightly built speed demon like his old man. Jake is the one that has been a bit questionable just because he hasn't been able to play any consistent under 18's footy for his TAC side.

[powersuperkents]

Actually we could have 3 father son pickups this year. Rice, Silvagni and Bradley. Rice is a halfback/wing, Jack is a key position prospect at both ends of the ground that has played some midfield and Jake is a lightly built speed demon like his old man. Jake is the one that has been a bit questionable just because he hasn't been able to play any consistent under 18's footy for his TAC side.

Isn't that ridiculous that they literally have just changed the F/S selection rules this year, the only time a team actually needs priority over the selection of certain players (rather than just taking advantage of a policy)  :-\

Depending on their reputation, Carlton might have to forgo one or even two of them (all because of Heeney - although I back academy picks over father/son because with the former the club has actually gone through the trouble of developing them)

[Ricochet]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Dunno how you can make that call after 9 rounds. They were after outside speed, Blakely doesn't provide that and Boeky has it in bucketloads. Maybe reassess after the next couple of years and then you can make that call

[powersuperkents]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Dunno how you can make that call after 9 rounds. They were after outside speed, Blakely doesn't provide that and Boeky has it in bucketloads. Maybe reassess after the next couple of years and then you can make that call

I'm regarding the short-term atm. The guy has potential and I can't deny that, it just doesn't make sense why Carlton say they need outside speed (referring to both the short and long term), and don't bother playing him. They stated that one of the reasons they selected him was that his body was AFL-ready.

I think they should be playing him tbh, there is no use having him play in the VFL (I can see the interim coach calling him up soon). I think Clem Smith will be the bargain selection (at #60) in the long-term (just needs to develop)

But I agree, no one can call a draft bust until the mid-to-late stage in a player's career and I don't think Boekhorst is a bust, I think he went too early in the draft (but again, he went early because Carlton needed outside run so looking through their perspective they were perfectly justified in using #19).

[Ricochet]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Dunno how you can make that call after 9 rounds. They were after outside speed, Blakely doesn't provide that and Boeky has it in bucketloads. Maybe reassess after the next couple of years and then you can make that call

I'm regarding the short-term atm. The guy has potential and I can't deny that, it just doesn't make sense why Carlton say they need outside speed (referring to both the short and long term), and don't bother playing him. They stated that one of the reasons they selected him was that his body was AFL-ready.

I think they should be playing him tbh, there is no use having him play in the VFL (I can see the interim coach calling him up soon). I think Clem Smith will be the bargain selection (at #60) in the long-term (just needs to develop)

It's not as simple as that though. Teams still need to aim to win, Boeky might not be in form, others may be ahead of him, team structures, team balance... there hundreds of reasons why a player may/may not be selected.

Just think it's impossible to judge a teams drafting based on half a year, a full year or even two years. Look at Palmer. How do you think Freo would have been feeling after his first year?

[powersuperkents]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Dunno how you can make that call after 9 rounds. They were after outside speed, Blakely doesn't provide that and Boeky has it in bucketloads. Maybe reassess after the next couple of years and then you can make that call

I'm regarding the short-term atm. The guy has potential and I can't deny that, it just doesn't make sense why Carlton say they need outside speed (referring to both the short and long term), and don't bother playing him. They stated that one of the reasons they selected him was that his body was AFL-ready.

I think they should be playing him tbh, there is no use having him play in the VFL (I can see the interim coach calling him up soon). I think Clem Smith will be the bargain selection (at #60) in the long-term (just needs to develop)

It's not as simple as that though. Teams still need to aim to win, Boeky might not be in form, others may be ahead of him, team structures, team balance... there hundreds of reasons why a player may/may not be selected.

Just think it's impossible to judge a teams drafting based on half a year, a full year or even two years. Look at Palmer. How do you think Freo would have been feeling after his first year?

sorry mate, I revised my comment to further elucidate (look above), I completely agree with you. The original comment was based more on my opinion of the draftees in the upcoming draft and the current predicament I see Carlton in.

[Ricochet]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Dunno how you can make that call after 9 rounds. They were after outside speed, Blakely doesn't provide that and Boeky has it in bucketloads. Maybe reassess after the next couple of years and then you can make that call

I'm regarding the short-term atm. The guy has potential and I can't deny that, it just doesn't make sense why Carlton say they need outside speed (referring to both the short and long term), and don't bother playing him. They stated that one of the reasons they selected him was that his body was AFL-ready.

I think they should be playing him tbh, there is no use having him play in the VFL (I can see the interim coach calling him up soon). I think Clem Smith will be the bargain selection (at #60) in the long-term (just needs to develop)

It's not as simple as that though. Teams still need to aim to win, Boeky might not be in form, others may be ahead of him, team structures, team balance... there hundreds of reasons why a player may/may not be selected.

Just think it's impossible to judge a teams drafting based on half a year, a full year or even two years. Look at Palmer. How do you think Freo would have been feeling after his first year?

sorry mate, I revised my comment to further elucidate (look above), I completely agree with you. The original comment was based more on my opinion of the draftees in the upcoming draft and the current predicament I see Carlton in.

Fair enough man. I'm with you there, it'll be exciting to see what SOS does in the upcoming drafts

[powersuperkents]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Dunno how you can make that call after 9 rounds. They were after outside speed, Blakely doesn't provide that and Boeky has it in bucketloads. Maybe reassess after the next couple of years and then you can make that call

I'm regarding the short-term atm. The guy has potential and I can't deny that, it just doesn't make sense why Carlton say they need outside speed (referring to both the short and long term), and don't bother playing him. They stated that one of the reasons they selected him was that his body was AFL-ready.

I think they should be playing him tbh, there is no use having him play in the VFL (I can see the interim coach calling him up soon). I think Clem Smith will be the bargain selection (at #60) in the long-term (just needs to develop)

It's not as simple as that though. Teams still need to aim to win, Boeky might not be in form, others may be ahead of him, team structures, team balance... there hundreds of reasons why a player may/may not be selected.

Just think it's impossible to judge a teams drafting based on half a year, a full year or even two years. Look at Palmer. How do you think Freo would have been feeling after his first year?

sorry mate, I revised my comment to further elucidate (look above), I completely agree with you. The original comment was based more on my opinion of the draftees in the upcoming draft and the current predicament I see Carlton in.

Fair enough man. I'm with you there, it'll be exciting to see what SOS does in the upcoming drafts

Just by looking at GWS you can tell he is a bona fide professional. I think he is a big step in the right direction for Carlton.

[Diesels Pups]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Dunno how you can make that call after 9 rounds. They were after outside speed, Blakely doesn't provide that and Boeky has it in bucketloads. Maybe reassess after the next couple of years and then you can make that call

I think it's more that we could have got Boekhurst anyway @pick 28 so we have to look at the combination of Boekhurst/Viojo-Rainbow to Laverde, Miller/Boekhurst. I personally would have preferred them to go the latter, that would have been a better combo. Proof is in the long term I suppose.

[powersuperkents]

I have to say, in hindsight, Boekhorst was a terrible pick. Even the poor performing debutants in every club have glimpses of talent. It's not Boekhorst that is terrible, it's the fact Mick used pick 19 when he could have selected Touk Miller, Connor Blakely or Laverde if he wanted a midfielder. Boekhorst would have been available for the club's second round pick.

Dunno how you can make that call after 9 rounds. They were after outside speed, Blakely doesn't provide that and Boeky has it in bucketloads. Maybe reassess after the next couple of years and then you can make that call

I think it's more that we could have got Boekhurst anyway @pick 28 so we have to look at the combination of Boekhurst/Viojo-Rainbow to Laverde, Miller/Boekhurst. I personally would have preferred them to go the latter, that would have been a better combo. Proof is in the long term I suppose.

They could have still gone Boekhorst/Miller if their next pick was at 28. Gold Coast got him as a slider at #29

[Mat0369]

Judd  :'(

It was pretty depressing at the ground right after it happened. At least I got to be there for his last game