Blues 2016 H&A Discussion

[blue]

Is anyone watching the post game? They were talking about Eddie Betts and him leaving Carlton. Dermie says he wouldn't pay Eddie 450k while Mark Maclure said he would since he is a 40 goal a year forward. Dermie was saying that for Betts to be successful he needs to be at the feet of Taylor Walker so he wouldn't be worth the cash and they had a bit of back and forth. King brought up the Thomas move which Dermie couldn't defend. The thing I think people underrate with Eddie is his goal assists and his leadership qualities. He played a huge part in keeping Yaz, Jeffy and Robbo happy and in line. Considering two of those went off the rails last year and are no longer there it adds to the pain

There may be a lot of truth in this statement

[Ricochet]

Apparently Sav Rocca is down at the club helping Levi?

[Big Mac]

Are you guys expecting Judd to play next year?

Something Mat said on the SC boards got me thinking about it

[Mat0369]

Apparently Sav Rocca is down at the club helping Levi?

Interesting choice. He was a really good long kick so it could work.


Levi needs work on his drop, BT is actually really good at working with players and finding something that is comfortable for them. He worked with Fev early on and changed his drop, I think if Levi tried something similar to that we could see a difference since there is less room for error with the low hand on the ball.

Are you guys expecting Judd to play next year?

Something Mat said on the SC boards got me thinking about it

I think it depends on the circumstances, he said he would retire last season but his form was brilliant and his body was feeling great. He hasn't made it clear that this would be his final year so I say he is 50/50. If he stays fit the whole year and he has the desire to go one more he can. He could also be critical to attract a certain someone to the club....

[Ricochet]

I honestly don't  know how something so obvious (his ball drop) can't be fixed in an AFL system

[Mat0369]

I honestly don't  know how something so obvious (his ball drop) can't be fixed in an AFL system

Bad habits are hard to break. Look at guys like Cloke and even Gumbleton. The other thing is they don't practice goal kicking enough at training anymore. You hear commentators complaining all the time that goal kicking is the one thing that hasn't improved and they bring up the training restrictions all the time.

[Ricochet]

I honestly don't  know how something so obvious (his ball drop) can't be fixed in an AFL system

Bad habits are hard to break. Look at guys like Cloke and even Gumbleton. The other thing is they don't practice goal kicking enough at training anymore. You hear commentators complaining all the time that goal kicking is the one thing that hasn't improved and they bring up the training restrictions all the time.

Yeh agree they certainly don't kick enough. They're worried about over loading
But his ball drop is far worse than those two or anyone for that matter

[kilbluff1985]

i think Cripps should be given a run in VFL before returning they need a fully fit 22

[Mat0369]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-president-mark-logiudice-talks-with-herald-sun-chief-football-writer-mark-robinson/story-fnp04d70-1227305263422

HERALD Sun chief football writer Mark Robinson sits down with Carlton president Mark LoGiudice.

Mark Robinson:Describe Carlton’s predicament on the field.

Mark LoGiudice: This would be a result of five to 10 years of poor administration and recruiting.

MR: We can all see the recruiting, but the administration?

ML: Yes. You have to look at the whole business. The result on-field is a make up of administration, recruiting and at board level, because the board is ultimately responsible for the football club.

MR: Describe the actual predicament on-field?

ML: We don’t have enough depth on our list, full stop. We have great talent on our list, but I don’t think it runs deep enough.

MR: The whole country is asking: Where’s the effort in the first two games? Where’s the spirit? Do you ask the same questions?

ML: The players need to take responsibility also for the what happens. It can’t be only a president or CEO or the coaching. Marc Murphy put his hand up and spoke to the media on Monday, which is a start.

MR: What did you think when Mark Maclure went after Mick Malthouse in the media?

ML: It’s not for me to tell people what to say, but a legend of our club in Mark Maclure ... it’s disappointing when he comes out and says those things publicly. But he’s got an opinion.

MR: Fans are disillusioned. You lost the first two games, but the way you lost the first two games ...

ML: I think it’s slightly exaggerated. We’re two games in, I know we lost, I’m not sitting here saying I’m happy with the way we’re going on-field. But let’s not over-exaggerate this. Geelong has also lost two games, there are other clubs who have lost two games, why not the hysteria there?

MR: Because it’s Carlton and because Mick is coming out of contract and because Mick’s behaviour attracts media attention. He is news every day of the week, good or bad.

ML: We are trying to change of the brand of the Carlton Football Club. No, the brand is the brand. It is known in history as one of the big four clubs and you can’t change that. It helps you sell newspapers.

MR: You’re not a top four club now, on or off the field. You’re far away from being a top four Victorian club.

ML: What’s your definition of a top-four club? In history, we’re known as one of the top-four clubs.

MR:You were, but not now Mark. There’s Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood, Richmond’s membership is flying. Essendon is 55,000-plus. You must agree you’re not a top-four club.

ML: What is your definition of top four?

MR:Strong financial position, soaring memberships, success on field, good branding.

ML: I agree we have not had a good run, but as part of the overall AFL brand, Carlton is still extremely important.

MR: Part of your legacy, maybe, is to return this club to big-four status.

ML: The whole AFL environment has changed and we’ve probably, what’s the word, probably hung on to the ‘95 premiership too long. We need to move on. From an overall perspective we need to change.

MR: The club hasn’t been able to create new history?

ML: It’s 20 years ago this year and we will celebrate the ‘95 premiership this year.

MR: And then let it go.

ML: (laughing) ... and then as a club we need to move on, which is part of the plan. We need to restructure, regroup, which I told you last June. We’re fixing some areas. Off-field, the restructure of the club has happened. We’ve got a new CEO, a new CFO which started yesterday, we’ve got a new COO, we’ve got a new branding manager, we’ve got Stephen Silvagni as the new list manager.

MR:Why was there a sweep out of people?

ML: It’s not a sweep out.

MR:It sounds like one. How many staff have you turned over since you became president?

ML: I don’t know. I really don’t know. In the restructure of the club and in attempt to change the culture at the club, people have either been willing to get on or get off.

MR: Clearly one of those people was Shane Rogers, your recruiting manager, who signed a contract extension and then walked a couple of weeks before Round 1.

ML: He’s obviously not happy with the way we’re doing things.

MR:It was said to me Rogers wasn’t keen on working with Silvagni. True?

ML: Probably one’s a new way of doing things and one’s an old way.

MR:Is SOS the most important man in the football department?

ML: He and the coach, yes. For the next three to five years he most likely will be. Let’s not skirt around the edges, this is a rebuild here. We’re rebuilding. We’ve said it in roundabout ways I suppose, but this is a rebuild. We’ve done the off-field with those changes and with the appointment of SOS, we will get our on-field right.

MR: It makes the decision on the coach enormous.

ML: Absolutely, no doubt.

MR:Will SOS have a say in that?

ML: No, definitely not. We will put a committee together, we’ll get the right expertise to make the right decisions.

MR:If you reappoint Mick, it has to be a three to five-year appointment. Do you agree?

ML: I’m not going to make any comment about that. We will review that at the back end of the season. We won’t be pressured by anyone. We won’t budge. When we’re ready we’ll announce the decision. I really don’t get this part about contracts. If you sign a contract you’re secure for that contract period.

MR:If you sack Mick, that rules out Ross Lyon as a replacement.

ML: Now you’re just throwing names up.

MR:Football is based on relationships and SOS is great mates with Ross Lyon. But Lyon is contracted to the end of 2017. Did you know that?

ML: No ... I haven’t thought about Ross Lyon.

MR:If you had all the Carlton fans in front of you, what would you say to them?

ML: This is where Carlton is today. We don’t need to go over old ground. We have a plan in place which will bring the Carlton Football Club back to where it should be. The Ten Drivers of Success (strategy plan) are in place. We are rebuilding this football club and we need all members to be part of the journey. Everyone needs to be patient, everyone needs to be on board.

MR:Do you interfere with list management?

ML: No, I don’t. But there’s one thing we’re confident about â€" Steve Silvagni is not scared to trade and not scared to recruit.

MR:So, if he came to you and said: ‘We can trade Marc Murphy or Bryce Gibbs for first round picks?

ML: As a board, we will listen to SOS and Andy McKay (head of football) who will come to us with a recommendation. They will need to define and provide us a plan with a process they’ve followed and say this is in the best interests of the Carlton footy club.

MR:So, hypothetically, SOS comes to the board and says we need to trade Marc Murphy. Do you say, “I trust you Stephen Silvagni’, or do you say, ‘We are not trading our captain?’

ML: Don’t worry, we will test every decision. We will have a robust discussion on any plan. There’s a process in place: There’s the plan, then the explanation, then discussion and then the decision.

MR:Will you make hard decisions?

ML: I’ve only been here since June and there’s been changes in management and there’s been a great change in culture throughout the club.

MR:Well, no player has been arrested in recent times and I say that because Carlton has had a colourful history in recent times. Tell me, did you have a say in Jeff Garlett and Mitch Robinson not being at the football club?

ML: (Pause). The right answer is this..

MR: It’s a yes or no answer, Mark.

ML: I gave my opinion and the final decision was made by the CEO and Andrew McKay. The answer is this, the week that happened we had a home game and in my president’s speech I said, ‘We wouldn’t tolerate this sort of behaviour at the Carlton Football Club’.

MR: So, you told the CEO we don’t want them at the football club?

ML: Yes. We need cultural change.

MR:How do you think Mick has handled the media this year?

ML: Great. Been fantastic.

MR: What are you going to do about Channel Seven and the post-match press conferences?

ML: The CEO handles that. My personal view is we don’t want to make a mockery of the press conferences after the game. Let’s talk football, that’s why the AFL put that in place, so media could talk to coaches after the game. Let’s not turn it into a circus. If it’s an opportunity to turn it into a circus, then maybe we shouldn’t have them.

MR: Is this club in crisis?

ML: Definitely not. It’s only a crisis when you don’t have a plan of where you’re heading. We know exactly where we are heading. We’ve got a plan, we’ve got a strategy. We’re far from crisis.

[Mat0369]

Probably a bit early to be thinking about this, but we are going to need a ruck this offseason. I am sick of seeing Warnock and Wood in Kreuz's abscence and I think we as a club have to come to a realisation that he may never be able to play predominantly in the ruck again. Maybe Nicholls from the Suns could be an option?

[kilbluff1985]

the clubs going to have to make some very tough calls on senior players

[Mat0369]

It had me thinking, and I know it is highly likely it won't happen, but I would be offering up Daisy and Kreuz for trade at the end of the year. The thing is we will be forking out a bit of cash on that Daisy deal but if we want to go after some GWS boys that will be the way to go about it.

[Ricochet]

It had me thinking, and I know it is highly likely it won't happen, but I would be offering up Daisy and Kreuz for trade at the end of the year. The thing is we will be forking out a bit of cash on that Daisy deal but if we want to go after some GWS boys that will be the way to go about it.

I'd be offering up Walker. 30 next year and great value

[Mat0369]

I'd be offering up Walker. 30 next year and great value

Any team that does their homework won't go after Walker. His knee looks to be a pretty big issue at the moment and you won't get much for a guy entering his 30's with a potential knee problem. The fact Daisy is younger and with Shaw already there, it could tempt them Giants a bit more. Especially when you know Carlton will have to foot the bill on some of his contract, it is more risk vs reward for them, similar to Griff and the Dogs contract this season. This will also obviously depend on if Mick is coach or not at the end of the year.

I'll actually go through our list and do a dead weight and trade bait list

[Mat0369]

So I won't include a few of the kids like Cripps and anyone in their first year at the club (which includes Liam Jones)

Untouchables - mainly due to age

Menz
Yaz
Docherty
Hendo (at least for 2 years)
Gibbs

Dead weight

Watson
Warnock
Dennis
Ellard

Possible retirees

Judd
Carrots

Trade bait

Jamo - great player, but will be the wrong side of 30 next year. He will carry some value at least, especially to a team like the Saints or even the Giants

Kreuz - as stated above, injuries might never see him play at his best or best position again, if you can get good value for him you pull the trigger

Daisy - money poorly spent, some team might see him as a good risk vs reward prospect if we fit the bill, if you get a good return pull the trigger

Walker - dodgy knee probably kills his value, but he could be another to consider

Levi- he can clunk them so a team might look at him and think they can fix his kicking. He is not one I am particularly keen on losing but it depends on what we get for him.

Purgatory - not exactly trade bait, not exactly untouchable

Murphy - his knee is shot, he most likely won't be able to play to the standard of 2011 because of it again. You can't exactly trade him yet but he still isn't untouchable. You would need a Jeremy Cameron style prospect to consider parting with him though (like Boyd and Griffen)

Simmo - age doesn't make parting with him worthwhile, especially considering his trade value would be low. You would think he retires a Blue and rightfully so. He is also still a much needed player at the club for multiple reasons.

Rowe - at his age and with his ability, he doesn't hold any value in a trade and will just be a solid player at the club over the next few years

Tom Bell - He is a good prospect that has the potential to be something great, but he hasn't been able to put it together yet. The club need to keep a few in his bracket but he isn't untouchable.

Nick Graham - Again being younger he hasn't had opportunity yet, not exactly trade worthy but still unproven and not untouchable.

Simon White - Bad knee and is not more then a depth player

Ed Curnow - Great tagger and a really good footy player, you don't want to trade him but you can't really list a tagger as untouchable.

Zach Tuohy - Severely regressed since his early days. Holds 0 trade value and is certainly not untouchable. He needs some confidence I think