British XV's - 2015 Discussion Thread

[Ringo]

I have added suggested points scoring based on the categories,  Not final and open for discussion.  Not sure whether we want to increase Ineffective disposals t to say -3 or 0r -5 as an example. 

Points in green are the ones that correlate to those of original Sportal. Others are my suggestions and open for debate.

[GoLions]

So I assume then that there would be a different amount of points awarded for effective and ineffective disposals, and extra points awarded for clearances? Kind of balances clangers not being added then.

No it doesn't because a clanger and an ineffective disposal aren't the same? How does clearances affect the balancing of clangers? (I would love clearances to be worth more because it benefits the hedgehogs but I don't understand the logic behind this?)

I think we just have the exact scoring system as discussed, without UP being worth anything as was planned if they weren't available?

Let me use Jack Steven and Pendles as an example. With clangers added, Steven's score would get hurt a lot more than Pendles, so would give Pendles a +10ppg advantage (for arguments sake). If they're not added, but effective and ineffective are, then because Pendles uses the ball better than Steven, he will still get that +10ppg advantage or thereabouts.

Obviously clearances has no effect, I was just referring to the effective and ineffective disposals part with that statement. And yes I know ineffective disposals doesn't give you negative points, but it gives you less than effective disposals do.

[GoLions]

Spoils is a category in the Sports Plus add on which we will have access to.

here are the categories in the package
Stat    Description    
KI    Kicks         3pts
HB    Handballs      1pt
MA    Marks      3pts
HO    Hitouts      1pt
TK    Tackles        3pts
FF    Free Kicks For    1pt
FA    Free Kicks Against    - 1pt   
FD    Free Kick Differential       
GL    Goals       6pts
BH    Behinds       1pt
D    Disposals    
ED    Effective Disposals    2pts
IED    Ineffective Disposals    -2pts
CP    Contested Possessions  4pts
R50    Rebound 50s    
SP    Spoils     2pts
CL    Clearances     4pts

At this stage pending further advices proposing to use all except those 2 in red. Will need to agree on scoring though to set.

Ineffective disposals shouldn't be negative points, I'd just give them 0.
And if we added clearances, I wouldn't be making them worth any more than 2.

[Ringo]

I was using ineffective disposals as a form of clangers but not the -5 that was used by Sportal.  Happy for further discussion though as to whether we should use this (o means we do not).
My thinking were clearances and contested possessions were similar to the outcome of a game so hence scoring the same.  Happy to lower points if that is concensus. 

[GoLions]

I was using ineffective disposals as a form of clangers but not the -5 that was used by Sportal.  Happy for further discussion though as to whether we should use this (o means we do not).
My thinking were clearances and contested possessions were similar to the outcome of a game so hence scoring the same.  Happy to lower points if that is concensus.

An ineffective disposal isn't a clanger though, so shouldn't get negative points.
A clearance will get you the contested possession points if it was a contested possession anyway, wouldn't it?

[Pkbaldy]

Do we need negative scorings at all?? I'm not a fan of either Clangers or Ineffective Disposal... And seeing as Clangers aren't going to be in it at all... Do we really need to use Ineffective Disposal?

[Spite]

Do we need negative scorings at all?? I'm not a fan of either Clangers or Ineffective Disposal... And seeing as Clangers aren't going to be in it at all... Do we really need to use Ineffective Disposal?

Yeah I agree.

From Wikipedia

"Examples of clangers include,

Any disposal or deliberate knock-on that goes directly to an opposition player.
Any free kick conceded
Dropped marks or fumbles under no pressure
50-metre penalties conceded
A Ball-Up Kick In (Stepping over the line when kicking in after a behind)"

Only one of those examples are ineffective disposals and it requires a direct turnover . However (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm just going off last years stats) an ineffective disposal includes a wider spectrum from a direct turnover to a kick into space (so one that doesn't give your team immediate possession).

Part of the fun is cheering on your players when you see them do something that will earn you a lot of BXV points and I think ineffective disposals just adds an unnecessary ambiguity to this.

As a compromise to this, as a free kick against is considered a clanger, we could just decrease the amount of points a free kick against is worth from perhaps -1 to -3? A large percentage of clangers are free's against anyway.

[Pkbaldy]

Do we need negative scorings at all?? I'm not a fan of either Clangers or Ineffective Disposal... And seeing as Clangers aren't going to be in it at all... Do we really need to use Ineffective Disposal?

Yeah I agree.

From Wikipedia

"Examples of clangers include,

Any disposal or deliberate knock-on that goes directly to an opposition player.
Any free kick conceded
Dropped marks or fumbles under no pressure
50-metre penalties conceded
A Ball-Up Kick In (Stepping over the line when kicking in after a behind)"

Only one of those examples are ineffective disposals and it requires a direct turnover . However (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm just going off last years stats) an ineffective disposal includes a wider spectrum from a direct turnover to a kick into space (so one that doesn't give your team immediate possession).

Part of the fun is cheering on your players when you see them do something that will earn you a lot of BXV points and I think ineffective disposals just adds an unnecessary ambiguity to this.

As a compromise to this, as a free kick against is considered a clanger, we could just decrease the amount of points a free kick against is worth from perhaps -1 to -3? A large percentage of clangers are free's against anyway.

I'd be fine with that.

[Ringo]

Happy to delete Ineffective disposals if that is the consensus (and heading that way).  Like the idea then of increasing FA to -3.

Keep the debate coming as I do not want to be dogmatic and implement points that you all are not happy with. Would also like some comment on the positive points as well eg is 4 to much for CP and Clearances.

[Pkbaldy]

This is what my suggestion is for the points system.
I actually don't mind CP as 4 points. To me it should be a very rewarding stat, as they're pretty important to the game, and players in all roles can rack up 10 or so a game.

Stat    Description   
KI    Kicks         3pts
HB    Handballs      1pt
MA    Marks      3pts
HO    Hitouts      1pt
TK    Tackles        3pts
FF    Free Kicks For    1pt
FA    Free Kicks Against    - 3pt       
GL    Goals       6pts
BH    Behinds       1pt
ED    Effective Disposals    2pts
CP    Contested Possessions  4pts
SP    Spoils     2pts
CL    Clearances     2pts

[Spite]

This is what my suggestion is for the points system.
I actually don't mind CP as 4 points. To me it should be a very rewarding stat, as they're pretty important to the game, and players in all roles can rack up 10 or so a game.

Stat    Description   
KI    Kicks         3pts
HB    Handballs      1pt
MA    Marks      3pts
HO    Hitouts      1pt
TK    Tackles        3pts
FF    Free Kicks For    1pt
FA    Free Kicks Against    - 3pt       
GL    Goals       6pts
BH    Behinds       1pt
ED    Effective Disposals    2pts
CP    Contested Possessions  4pts
SP    Spoils     2pts
CL    Clearances     2pts

I'm a fan of this

[GoLions]

This is what my suggestion is for the points system.
I actually don't mind CP as 4 points. To me it should be a very rewarding stat, as they're pretty important to the game, and players in all roles can rack up 10 or so a game.

Stat    Description   
KI    Kicks         3pts
HB    Handballs      1pt
MA    Marks      3pts
HO    Hitouts      1pt
TK    Tackles        3pts
FF    Free Kicks For    1pt
FA    Free Kicks Against    - 3pt       
GL    Goals       6pts
BH    Behinds       1pt
ED    Effective Disposals    2pts
CP    Contested Possessions  4pts
SP    Spoils     2pts
CL    Clearances     2pts

I'm a fan of this

[Nige]

This is what my suggestion is for the points system.
I actually don't mind CP as 4 points. To me it should be a very rewarding stat, as they're pretty important to the game, and players in all roles can rack up 10 or so a game.

Stat    Description   
KI    Kicks         3pts
HB    Handballs      1pt
MA    Marks      3pts
HO    Hitouts      1pt
TK    Tackles        3pts
FF    Free Kicks For    1pt
FA    Free Kicks Against    - 3pt       
GL    Goals       6pts
BH    Behinds       1pt
ED    Effective Disposals    2pts
CP    Contested Possessions  4pts
SP    Spoils     2pts
CL    Clearances     2pts

I'm a fan of this

[nostradamus]

l like most of what has been suggested.

Except for not including clangers, as they help to accurately reflect a players true value to an AFL team. Also don't like the raising of the penalty of frees against to -3 to compensate.

To me it has the potential to penalise inside mids and players who have a real crack, whilst at the same time reward outside seagulls who can't kick straight and turn the ball over.

The rest l like :)

**Also worth noting l'm talking on Rids' behalf too, we've discussed it but he's interstate working and can't get online at the moment.

[GoLions]

l like most of what has been suggested.

Except for not including clangers, as they help to accurately reflect a players true value to an AFL team. Also don't like the raising of the penalty of frees against to -3 to compensate.

To me it has the potential to penalise inside mids and players who have a real crack, whilst at the same time reward outside seagulls who can't kick straight and turn the ball over.

The rest l like :)

**Also worth noting l'm talking on Rids' behalf too, we've discussed it but he's interstate working and can't get online at the moment.

Clangers aren't available though